The Lal Masjid Controversy Continues
Tensions grew around a madrassa religious school and mosque in Islamabad onl Wednesday as Islamic teachers and students held three police officers and three women hostage over the arrest of several colleagues.
Several thousand mainly female students surrounded the Jamia Hafsa madrassa and Lal Masjid, or red mosque, in the city centre to ward of any attempt by police to force their way through to the captives, who were taken into the building amid a dispute about alleged brothels located in the area.
Veiled and masked students armed with sticks chanted anti- government slogans and demanded Islamic law in the country as negotiators brokered the release of the officers and detained teachers and students.
But by late evening three women, said to be the manager of an alleged brothel and two relatives, were still being held in the school. The students were demanding that charges be brought against them.
Police initiated a case against students for abducting the women while paramilitary units manned cordons around the complex, a known hotbed of militant support for the struggle against international forces in Afghanistan.
The stand-off began the previous evening when madrassa students detained the manager with the intent of “reforming” her. Police had ignored requests from the school to close the establishment, they said.
According to the cleric Abdul Rashid Ghazi who is also the deputy head of the complex said that the police kidnapped their female teachers, which ignited the situation
According to the madrassa, two teachers and six students were taken into custody. The students retaliated by taking two police officers hostage in the school with their squad cars, followed by the seizure of a plain clothes officer.
After several hours, authorities began to bend to demands from the madrassa and set free the detainees. They also pledged to release a former secret service agent who was arrested earlier this year while investigating the cases of missing citizens.
The students say that It is their right to take action, citing outrage at the tolerance of prostitution in the area.
Earlier in the week madrassa students reportedly visited local internet cafes and CD shops, accusing them of being sources of obscenity and demanding that they close down.
They then focused on alleged brothels being run illicitly in the district and their impromptu campaign was supported by local residents.
The madrassa and mosque are attended by 11,000 students, some of whom have occupied a nearby library for more than two months in protests over plans to demolish the school and a number of mosques in the city for breach of planning regulations.
But authorities were reportedly worried about a security threat from the complex. According to the reports the school encourages students to join the fight in Afghanistan and that suicide bombings are a legitimate form of attack. Automatic weapons are also known to be kept on the premises.
Earlier attempts to take action against the school and mosque were dropped amid the threat of a violent backlash. The events follow a series of nationwide protests by lawyers and opposition forces against Musharraf’s suspension of the chief justice for misuse of office.
Religious parties joined liberal opposition at the demonstrations, raising the likelihood of a broader opposition movement.
May Allah give us courage and guidance to eliminate such extreme elements from our society.
Vigilantism is pretty much the last step before anarchy.
This is very worrisome. The Govt, which nevers fails to unleash force on average citizens, is sitting and not doing anything with these hooligans. So now, it is okay to terrorize citizens as long as you are wearing a hijab/niqab,beard and skull cap! This is sick! These people are mentally sick! I hope to God the Govt wakes up before it is too late.
It is another example of the sick teachings given by mullahs and force their evil mentality on others, government simply dont have balls to take any action against these mullas, right in the heart of country’s capital the mullas are running hate propogating RADIO channels, calling for Jihad, oppenly kidnapping people, and harrasing shop owners and moderate people.
In every televised interview mullas claim that they are preachers of Love(HUH) and no extremism taught in Madersas, now they are caught with their pants down, world can see not only male but female TALIBAN.
and while this vigilantism is going on Musharraf is in Saudi Arabia on Middle East peace? That guy has lost his mind and is no longer useful.
This Jamia Hafsa people are utterly sick.
Why dont people come on street and confront these basterds of the male and female kind. Thankfuly,Musharraf has established the writ of the govt in the far flung mountains of sibbi. Hopefuly, now he may consider doing the same in his capital. Given his clear position on private armies, I hope he will tackle this army too. This at least shows that he cares more about balochis than his capital city where he has big protected houses. The guy is emotional enough to wear his uniform while ousting a chief justice, but when it comes to beards and niqabs, he starts shitting his pants.
Meanwhile, I am thinking of growing a beared and putting my wife in a burqa. This will ensure much more freedom and less of harrasment for both of us in the land of pure.
I must salute the moronic attitude of the author. How cleverly author twisted the actual news to demonstrate his haterd against the religion and it reflects when he used the term “militants” for the students.
The actual story starts from here:
tinyurl.com/yqt7y4
and when video salers complaint to do something aginst local prostitute Aunty Shamim and her gand then she captured the real culprits women,the women who even slapped the SHO once. The police tried to capture the students after captivating those women. Even people of areas SUPPORTED those students to take action against those women.
What I believe that author has some relation with that prostitute Aunty Shamim. Shame on author. Instead of cursing his impotency against raising voice against the dirt in surround ,he’s expressing his haterd against Islam. Shame on you kid! I also salute the ignorance of so called educated readers of this metroblog who made no attempts to find out the real news but this is hallmark of liberals’ extreemism that they make no attempts to seek truth and rather feel happy to follow west blindly.
If someone has to find out truth then he/she can read todays’ jang where everything is mentioned in details. The autor provided NO reference of any paper which reflects that he didn’t want to tell the real story to the readers.
But then I shouldn’t be surprised when managment of this Islamabad and Karachi blog consist of left wing extreemist liberals and qadyanis who miss no chance to demonstrate their haterd against Islam.
The guy is attending a meeting of “ARAB” countries, (while all our neighbours, which happen to be all non-arab, are at clear odds with us) advising them on their security, while the homeland is in flames (see Tanak).
Hey Adnan, we know whats happening. Do you have four muttaqi gawah of actual sexual encounters. It will be usefulif u open and actualy read quran sometime. And by the way why the fuck you dont have a beared. Dont you belive in it. If you do, then first goand fulfil ur duties towards religion, then giving a lesson to others. And if you dont then I dare you openly say it. And , before you say anything, I try my utmost to do whatever I beleive in. And grwoinga beared doesnt take much of effort. Might even save you some money spend on those razors, whose companies are actualy owned by jews and qadianis.
Babar, I am not your family member that you are cursing me. mind your potty mouth language. As far as witness against your Aunty Shamim. Read the todays paper you idiot! entire Mohallah actually supported those girls. Ignorance is an excuse but too much ignorance is nothing but a curse. Lecturing me to open QUran, why don’t you make attempts to read Quran in which GOd clearly instructed to stop evil things by hand if not then by toungue and if not then atleast consider sin a sin.
Next time don’t reflect your family background by calling names, act like a mature learned man[as you claim] and then I would feel happy to get engaged with you.
Dear Adnan,
Un;ess you have a newer copy of quran written by some mullah, I challange you to show me the verse you just mentioned. Now who has not opened quran? ( By the way doesnt that ask for a 295-C attributing to quran what is not there?)
and the authour of this post wasnt ur faimy member either. I am just doing my duty of stopping the evil by writing.
And oh what about the beared?
What evidence you had to “beleive” that author has relations with Aunty shamim? I am still just talking about the things you say yourself,nothing about your family, unlike you who seem to have the habit of talking about people’s family ( typical bigotted behaviour). Doesnt that call for another islamic injuction.
But finally i am sorry. ( What if you caught me and locked inside a mosque/madrassa? After all you have the right to stop evil by force and by your “own judgment”. And we dont have a muslim chief justice anyway, which makes you even more rightful for taking law in your hands. Doesnt it?)
And dont forget to produce the verse you attributed to Quran. I am waiting for it.
Do you have four muttaqi gawah of actual sexual encounters
my )_learned_ friend , you asked four, here are many against aunty shamim, the entire fedration
tinyurl.com/37du5a
Now since you brought quran first in middle and quoted a verse of “Rape” by mixing it up with a “prostitution business”, I would ask you to bring a verse which curse people of fedration who were the first evidence of action taken by students. You talked about 4 evidences, the news says entire fedration has witnessed the cunning activities of aunty. Now, provide me your verse first so that i show you the verse what quran says to raise voice against evil.
And My friend, I don’t need to lock you anywhere when you are an example of Surah Baqrah’s verse:
Deaf, dumb, blind, therefore they have no sense.(Quran 002.171 )
May Allah increase your ignorance more and more. And don’t worry about my beard, I *DO* have a beard and that picture is old but then your mighty wisdom told u tht since pic has not beard so I dont have beard. It means if I would have put up my childhood pic then your mighty knowledge was goign to fatwa that I am some underage child. Salute to your wisdom babar. Kindly don’t give such education to your kids as they would be a burden for our Pakistani society. :-)
Dear Adnan. The verse please. I am waiting.
I dont want to comment on your ignorance of even Quran ( your new claim that the verse about four witneses is about rape, though any one can open the book and read its about acussing a woman of adultry) which you portray to hold so dear, anymore. I am not interested in engaging with you furthur but I will still wait for the verse you attributed to quran. I hope you have been exposed on this forum at least.
I am not going to comment on your ignorance of even Quran ( your claim that the verse about four witneses is about rape, although anyone can open the book and read that it is about allegation of adultery on a woman), which you hold so dear, anymore. I will wait for the verse you attributed to quran, though. I hope you have been at least exposed on this forum.
I am truly amazed. You are asking me to produce a verse which I never claimed to have existed, but are not ready to give me the verse you attributed happily to quran.
Strange.
And its also strange that you are so much ignorant even about the book you claim to have so dear to you that you are alleging that the verse about four witnesses is about RAPE. Anyone with a copy can open the book and read for themselves that it is about allegation of adultery on a woman. One only needs to open the book and read. Is that too much to ask.
I hope you are exposed on this forum. I no longer wish to engage with you unless you produce the verses you attribute to quran.
And its also strange that you are so much ignorant even about the book you claim to have so dear to you that you are alleging that the verse about four witnesses is about RAPE. Anyone with a copy can open the book and read for themselves that it is about allegation of adultery on a woman. One only needs to open the book and read. Is that too much to ask.
I hope you are exposed on this forum. I no longer wish to engage with you unless you produce the verses you attribute to the book.
And its also strange that you are so much ignorant even about the book you claim to have so dear to you that you are alleging that the verse about four witnesses is about RAPE. Anyone with a copy can open the book and read for themselves that it is about allegation of adultery on a woman. One only needs to open the book and read. Is that too much to ask.
“They then focused on brothels being run illicitly in the district and their impromptu campaign was supported by local residents.”
Backpacker: It would have been better if you prefixed “alleged” with brothels as we or the ninja girls have no right to accuse anyone of a crime unless proven in a court of law.
It is the initial pussyfooting by the administrators which is to blame for unleashing this monster in the Capital. It has grown out of proportion and cannot be controlled now without letting blood in the streets of Islamabad. Any further delay will result in complete Talibanization of the city and will surely result in a civil war, as happened in the post-Talibanic Islamabad.
There is no turning back now. Musharraf must rush back to Islamabad and personally supervise an armed operation to eliminate Islamic militants. We need an operation on the lines launched by Hafiz Al-Assad in Hama in 1982 to eliminate religious militancy from Syria.
This is the first time we are seeing a “student” going for his studies persumably armed with not a pen but an axe. But then it is the propaganda of the Jewish and Hindu press to portray madrassa students as terrorists. The photos of the armed student must be a trickery.
For the benefit of Babar:
You are the best of peoples evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors. (Qur’an 3:110)
“Whosoever sees an evil action, let him change it with his hand; and if he is not able to do so, then with his tongue; and if he is not able to do so, then with his heart - and that is the weakest of faith.” (Hadith in al-Bukhari)
It all seems quiet on the Babar front?
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone :)
History has shown repeatdly that vigilantism only results in witch-hunting. A court of the law is the only place to determine the guilt or innocent of an accused, not the streets or Lal Masjid.
I want to ask a question to all those who are champion of civilization, why not u cry when u see the vulgar ad of Ufone or Olwell TV commercial, or Mobilink/ Warid & Telenor ’s TV ads & campaigns. Whu not u cry against dancing Pakistani girls in skin tight dresses on night musical evening, why not authors condemn those, because they are showing the soft face, its the history when vulgarity increased a counter force also emerged against enlightened Islam.
Kidal: Thanks. I knew those verses but a person who is being sissy by asking “have u beard” or “u got 4 evidences”,”would u lock me inside” is not worthy enough enuff to be taken seriously. When i clarified or refuted him by giving answer of beared and 4 evidences, he then started screaming about quranic verses which made me realize few events in Quran about Moses[as] when chamcha of Phiron and he himself insisted Moses[as] to give evidence and when He gave the evidence, they made fun by saying “it’s magic”. Same happened with Muhammad[saw] when he splitted the moon then kuffar of that time made fun of Prophet[saw] by saying it’s an open magic. Baber belongs to same tribe who have no sense of understanding anything and ready to ridicule things which they cant get at all. Better leave such poor soul alone in his bin.
Well said Adnan. They want to see the picture from there own angle.
Actually English press always invents some “Terminologies’ Like “Talibization”. Here I will also use another term ‘Vulgarization’. Here in on another topic we are condemining govt. for hostile action against CJ. It’s the same police which were grapping the hairs of CJ & pushed him & when they get under the circle of student, they become “Mazlooms”.
Is it not true the students first preach peacefully to CD owner shops, is it not true that Shop owners guided them about Aunty Shamin act, is it not true that students also preach Aunty Shamim peacefully, Is it not true that Aunty Shamim gave them threat of serious repurcussions & students not reacted despite of their ability to react, is not trus that 4 teachers of Jamia Hafsa was kidnapped by Govt. officials first & then in counter reaction they took action.
Here I am not supporting Jamia’s students, but also see the other side of picture, why state supporting prostitution. Why they are so active in launching FIR & on the other hand prostitution is so common in Islamabad. The local residence also feels happy when Jamia students put the pressure on Aunty Shamim
Dear Atta, unfortunately ( or fortunately) I have other things to do in life, too.
Dear Kidal, I am very well aware of the verse you mentioned and also the hadith. I was just going to tell about these to the forum readers , if he did not wrote about it, which I very well doubted he has any knowledge of. Infact there are many other verses about amr-bil-maroof and nahi-anil-munkir in quran , see
3:114, 9:111, 22:41, 31:17, 3:104, 9:70.
I am not gonna go into debate how the muslims have interpreted it , throughout the history and if this means that muslims believed that every one can take law in their hands, or the muslim societies were always like wild west.
My only point was that this guy who is constatntly accusing others of “extreme ignorance” doesnt even know what is written in quran. Clearly the qoute which he attributed to Quran is actualy a hadith. And this is very irresponsible from islamic point of view to present a hadith as quran. Every one knows what status Quran enjoys in Muslim ideology, not even a zabar or zeer is tolerated misplaced in quran. And if you dont know that weather something is in quran or not , you should not just go ahead and make it up. This is very very irresponsible, infact malicious and an attempt to disinform people.
I will not accept the excuse that he knew that something like this existed and he just thought it is in quran. Thats a clear lack of honesty and disservice to his cause. Whatever way you want to interpret a verse and whatever hadith you want to qoute for this purpose, you can not put words into Quran which are not there, like ” stop the evil by force yourself, if not by word, if not consider it bad”.
Now the alleged verse about RAPE
“And those who caluminate chaste women but bring not four witnesses-flog them with eighty stripes, and do not admit their evidence ever after, for it is they that are the transgressors.” 24:4
( I am wondering if the case is not proved in the court now, will all those niqabi’s and mulvis and Mr. Siddiqi present themselves volunterily for this punishment)
But beleive me, I have no intention of going in debate about the interpretation of these verses. But siddiqi sahib clearly put words into Quran at two places which are not there, and denied something ( the above verse) which is there.
My only point is that it is quite easy to call others “extreme ignorant” just by your assumption , because of their certain stand on an issue. Should this be called arrogance or insecurity, or rather arrogance as a result of insecurities.
Please the video of Aunty Shamim the prostitute at BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/multimedia/
What a good depiction of beautiful Islam.
Mr. Babar ! How can u say, that Aunty Shamim were not under the pressure of state & then leave the home.
“Ya rab na woh samjhe hain na samjhein gein meri bat… de aur dil unko, gar na de mujh ko zuban aur”
I dont care if Aunty shamim was a prostitute or not, and I will be only happy if police take out prostitution centres from our cities. But some of us crazy people are very much scared of pakistan becoming a wild west , where whoever wishes puts a rope in someones neck. Its realy scary living in Pakistan where any bearded person can take you out by putting any kind of blame on you and nobody comes to your help.
(And please dont be like you dont know anything, its a common anecdote in offices , public places ect., that people do not want to offened beareded persons for the fear of their life, and argumenting with them is just considerd very dangerous. In person I probably would not dare to say these things to a bearded person, and if I did, for sure some of my friends( very common people, not westernized liberals) would come to me and try to convince me not to repeat the mistake as how dangerous it can get. This is common knowledge)
I think we have gone too much into a game of ping pong here. Havent we? So I would like to take rest from answering back, which I was doing for the first time over internet anyways.
Let me make one thing very clear to any God-forsaken and illiterate daughter or son-of-a-fanatic maulvi on this discussion….
True Islam is, was, and never will be spread by force of an axe or a gun or a sword! Extremism and Terror is what you spread by doing so! What makes you so God damn special if you wear a burqa or support a beard and I do not? I can still claim to be a better muslim than you because I know in my heart that what I do to please my God and ask for his forgiveness and guidence is MY affair and MY AFFAIR only! I do not need you to drag me or threaten me in the street as to what I should wear and how I should walk or what ever! You have to go in your grave and I have to go in mine. Try sorting out your own AAKHRAT rather than enforcing your ridiculous and extreme antics on me or any one in my country!
Pakistan is a progressive and developing nation! If you are so keen on spreading your version of Islam, then get lost to Afghanistan where there are a lot of your fellow brothers and sisters doing the same! Leave us alone because we have enough issues already than to harbor fanaticism from the likes of you sort!
What people like BABAR do not realize is that this is not the old times of the Holy Prophet (PBUH). You have to move with the ways of teh world and you CAN NOT afford to stand against it! There is a way to spread your cause and it can be done through much more moderate and peaceful means! The problem with the likes of him is that they think they are ‘oh so much better’ than any average man on the street because they wear a shalwar above their ankles or they support a beard or that they wear burqas that barely show their eyes and nothing more! I say you are no lesser than any one else if you do not know how to respect another human being even if he/she is your enemy.
As for the current stand off, just wait and see Mr Babar… We in the Pakistan Army have a major surprise in store for you that will either make you come to your senses or else we’ll be more than happy to issue the likes of you a GREEN CARD to your HEAVEN!
Hope the likes of you REST IN PEACES because you are nothing more than a vermin and pest that is merely eating away at the fabric of Pakistan’s progress and its outlook in the entire world today! May all of you rot in your graves!
Dear Faizan,
I think you picked up the wrong person here. I am on your side in this issue:( please read my posts. Or was I immensly incapable of clarifying my point.
My appologies if I am targeting the wrong person but who so ever is supporting this ’cause’ needs to get his/her head examined!
Miss Shamim has given a very useful statement at her house, she said that she was not kidnapped because she was running a sex center but she was only kidnapped because she belonged to the other sect of Islam, and during these 2 days in Lal Masjid she was also pressurized to change her sect and adopt the Deobandi/Wahabi sect, the Jama-e-Hafsa terrorists only did it in the enemity and opposition of the opposite sect, the story of sex center was all a drama.Link is:
http://www.dawn.com/2007/03/30/top2.htm
It is a poor woman and his daughter and a daughter in law today, it will be one of us tomorrow. It is time to rise up against mullahism and their witch-hunting.
If crime is to be punished that Mullah Rasheed (now called Ghazi) is first to be punished. I might not remember but I do. When he was in the high school, he stole a receiver from a public telephone booth in Aabpara and made a radio from the receiver. He never stopped bragging about his achievement and his father, maulvi abdullah, had no guts to stop him from stealing the property of the government of pakistan and that of tax payers.
If madrassa education was so good, what did maulvi abdullah instead sent Rasheed Chore to the government school.
Rasheed’s addiction to stealing has contnued. Now he has stolen state land to built an illegal madrassa and made his own army.
Now they are owners of wealth but I know Rasheed and Aziz and their sibblings when they lived in a lowely C type quarter in the corner of the street in G-6/1-3,across the Naval HeadQuarter. It was Zia and his patronage and later the power of gun which has made them so powerful. People of area do remember Mullah Rasheed’s sister’s bell-bottom and other fashions (nobody accused them of prostituting) and now he is “arresting” other women.
Fauzan you are in “na”Pak army of Pakistan? I must thank you for giving a lengthy and retardish lecture.
merely eating away at the fabric of Pakistan’s progress
Aham.. it seems you are not aware of your past history that how the masters of yours screwed Pakistan since beginning when that moron iskandar mirza invaded this country with martial law and it still goes on. We lost a part of Pakistan due to pathetic display of Pakistan army. Do you remember Gen.Niazi? Do you remember how your bastard generals made lots of property in the name of Afghan “Jihad”? Go and check the property of son of Akhter Abdul Rahman. Do you remember how you guys were made naked publicily when US attacked on your Ojhri camp and converted entire army in “Ojri”? The list goes on and on but few instances are enough to give the background of your “Army”.
Your rant just reflects the current condition of Pakistan Army whose head was siting on Lap of US, the US who is now seeking excuses to come out of Afghanistan and Iraq now. The days of naPak Army gernals are numbered now. Just wait and watch how you guys fall down like a slaughtered cow.
and yea, read your history first before you attack others and yes do use your “brain” if it has not been wasted at Kakool and re-read what’s being said. Don’t act like that “bawla” dictator who is sinking day by day.
Oh I just read in paper that aunty shamim has left mohallah. Good! Khas kam jahan pak. Now I expect “bhanjay” of aunties would come out from their drawing roooms and would shelter then darling aunty :D
Shame on you Adnan siddiqi for creating new verses in Quran. Shame Shame Shame
For Babar,
Please take a minute to read the hadith mentioned at the end below which includes an important principle in Islam.
The Qur’ân says
“Whoever obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah”.
Allah says: “No, by your Lord, they do not believe until they submit to your adjudication in all disputes between them, then they do not find themselves oppressed with your decisions and they completely submit.” Qur’ân (4:65)
Again, Allah says: “When a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger, it does not behoove a believer, man or woman, to have choice in their matter. One who disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path.” Qur’ân (33:36)
Furthermore, Allah says: “What the Messenger teaches you, take it; and what he forbids you, avoid doing it.” Qur’ân (59:7)
In connection with this verse, I am marvelled by what is corroborated by Ibn Masoud (Allah be pleased with him) that is, A woman came to him and told him: “You who says: May Allah’s curse be on Al-Namisat [a woman who plucks hers or others eye-brows - to be a thin line - to seek beauty. Such an act is forbidden. It is a mean to change the form of Allah's creation] and Al-Motanamisat [a woman who asks others to do it for her] and those who tattoo.” He said: “Yes.” She said, “I read the Book of Allah (Al-Qur’ân) from its beginning to its end, I did not find what you have said.”
He told her: “If you have read it, you would have found it. As for your reading what the Messenger teaches you, take it, and what he forbids you, avoid doing it.” She said: “Certainly”. He said: “I have heard the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu`alaihiwasallam) says: “May Allah’s curse be on Al-Namisat.” (Bukhaaree & Muslim)
Dogs will be dogs… they will bark and they will bite but they will still remain dogs… just like you are adnan :) bark away and while you are at it, lemme assure you that all the blame that you give to the army needs a little look at what your dear politicians and maulvis had done PRIOR to the Army intervening in the affairs of the state. Corruption runs deep in this country and that has always been the case… whether it is army or not!
While we in this ‘bastardly naPak’ Army actually saved Pakistan from becoming yet another war-torn Iraq and Afghanistan by doing what was best for the country, the likes of you brainwashed thousands of young children and men to go die in your neighboring countries. The army might not be all saints but it has certainly saved your candy asses from being whooped by uncle Sam so far!
While this nation gave shelter to the people of Afghanistan, people like you harbored the terrorists and fanatics amongst them and gave them the country and said, “here… rape us well!”
Pakistan might survive without these Generals kiddo but it will be doomed if we give you the free hand to spread your version of Islam! Frankly speaking, your mullahs are not qualified to lead the country progressively and the politicians can not survive a full five year term without screwing things over!
We’ll see how long your dear old daddies sitting in the caves or in those confiscated mosques survive! Don’t worry, we make enough Generals every year to smoke more than your 7 generations to oblivion :)
oh and lastly, drop this line to your pathetic ‘BROTHERS’ in the Lal Masjid: Tell them to get some balls and stop using their women as a forefront to enforce their stupid version of Islam. Tell them that if they have any guts, they should make their women sit inside and go threat people themselves!
Hey Atta,
Forgive my bluntness, but dont you guys even have a smallest brain and IQ. You realy disappoint me. Why are you trying to confuse things so badly. You want me to beleive that you can put all the hadith books into quran. Either you have no respect and love for the holy book or you just dont know what the islamic faith is about the holy book. The perfect word of God.
The more respectful way for Adnan would have been to apologise for his mistake and repent, rather than making a fool of himself.
I always thought doing some tweaking with Quran’s verses was the biggest sin, but you want me to beleive that its ok.
Let me remind you another verse of Quran , if you still take it so lightly to attribute anything to Quran.
God said,
” If this ( Muhammad(saw) } had made up some verses onto us. We would have grabbed him by his right hand. And then cut his life vain. and no one among you would have been able to save him.”
Fear god is you beleive or just stop your tounges. And if you dont beleive, its just fine with me. As I beleive there is no compulsion in matters of faith.
Or it seems you guys dont have any idea of your religion itself . In order to make your point you want to make Quran irrelavent, and want me to beleive that you can put anything in Quran , some 100 thousands ahadis . Now I know why you never open Quran. Mullahs are good enough for you.
Seriously talking to you guys is just useless. You guys must have an IQ of 20 So dont expect any more answers to your querries here.
Dogs will be dogs… they will bark and they will bite but they will still remain dogs.
Khisyana Billa khamba nochay. I enjoyed it army kid.
By the way how many pakistanis sold recently to US? is your general gonna throw some party by selling pakistanis to your master?
what are your plans to “sacrifice” more jawans to fulfill your miltiary “fantasies”? by the did India recently itch your “back”? it looks though ;)
Can Citizens Take Law Into Their Own Hands When the Authorities Don’t Do Their Job?
http://blog.sunnipath.com/?p=53
This question has come up from a host of recent events, including the attention-grabbing attack on a brothel by female madrassa students in Islamabad.
Mufti Rafi Usmani talked about this in his Friday prayer sermon, lamenting that this is a manifestation of the tribulations (fitan) that we are accosted with in our times. We are seeing that common people are fed up of the inaction, irresponsibility, ineptitude, and corruption of government and law-enforcement agencies; and they are taking matters into their own hands.
He also mentioned that many leading scholars went in person-in previous actions of these female madrassa students, in which they took over a children’s library-advising them that their actions were not Islamic, and that they need to change their course of conduct. However, in their zeal, they refused to listen to the scholars’ advice.
Mufti Rafi Usmani said that that these students-like others-are probably sincere. But sincerity alone is not enough for actions to be acceptable. Rather, for actions to be acceptable, they have to be in accordance to the limits of the Shariah-and the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) lived within the limits of the law and urged the believers to live within the limits of the law at all times.
Situations such as this, the shaykh said, are very dangerous, because Islam is a religion of law, and it commands its followers
to abide by the and to remain within its limits. When there are problems with the government, its laws, or the enforcement of those laws, then it is a believer’s duty to take all legal means possible to seek to rectify matters. But one cannot take the law into one’s own hand, as this is contrary to the Shariah and a recipe for lawlessness, crime, and vigilantism-and it creates very dangerous precendents. This is a case of one problem being dealt with in ways that create many other problems.
Mufti Rafi Usmani said that this and similar situations that we face in our times remind him of the Prophetic hadith,
“Hasten to good works before tribulations like the layers of darkness of dark nights…” [Reported by Muslim]
He closed with advice to make much supplication with the Prophetic supplication for times of trial: “O Allah, I seek refuge in you from tribulations, both manifest and hidden.” [Reported Ahmad from Ibn Abbas (Allah be pleased with him); rigorously authentic]
[Allahumma innee a`udhu bika mina'l fitani ma dhahara minha wa ma batan]
Çááåã Çäí ÃÚæÐ Èß ãä ÇáÝÊä ãÇ ÙåÑ ãäåÇ æãÇ ÈØä
And Allah alone gives success.
Faraz Rabbani
Can Citizens Take Law Into Their Own Hands When the Authorities Don’t Do Their Job?
http://blog.sunnipath.com/?p=53
This question has come up from a host of recent events, including the attention-grabbing attack on a brothel by female madrassa students in Islamabad.
Mufti Rafi Usmani talked about this in his Friday prayer sermon, lamenting that this is a manifestation of the tribulations (fitan) that we are accosted with in our times. We are seeing that common people are fed up of the inaction, irresponsibility, ineptitude, and corruption of government and law-enforcement agencies; and they are taking matters into their own hands.
He also mentioned that many leading scholars went in person-in previous actions of these female madrassa students, in which they took over a children’s library-advising them that their actions were not Islamic, and that they need to change their course of conduct. However, in their zeal, they refused to listen to the scholars’ advice.
Mufti Rafi Usmani said that that these students-like others-are probably sincere. But sincerity alone is not enough for actions to be acceptable. Rather, for actions to be acceptable, they have to be in accordance to the limits of the Shariah-and the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) lived within the limits of the law and urged the believers to live within the limits of the law at all times.
Situations such as this, the shaykh said, are very dangerous, because Islam is a religion of law, and it commands its followers
to abide by the and to remain within its limits. When there are problems with the government, its laws, or the enforcement of those laws, then it is a believer’s duty to take all legal means possible to seek to rectify matters. But one cannot take the law into one’s own hand, as this is contrary to the Shariah and a recipe for lawlessness, crime, and vigilantism-and it creates very dangerous precendents. This is a case of one problem being dealt with in ways that create many other problems.
Mufti Rafi Usmani said that this and similar situations that we face in our times remind him of the Prophetic hadith,
“Hasten to good works before tribulations like the layers of darkness of dark nights…” [Reported by Muslim]
He closed with advice to make much supplication with the Prophetic supplication for times of trial: “O Allah, I seek refuge in you from tribulations, both manifest and hidden.” [Reported Ahmad from Ibn Abbas (Allah be pleased with him); rigorously authentic]
[Allahumma innee a`udhu bika mina'l fitani ma dhahara minha wa ma batan]
Çááåã Çäí ÃÚæÐ Èß ãä ÇáÝÊä ãÇ ÙåÑ ãäåÇ æãÇ ÈØä
And Allah alone gives success.
Faraz Rabbani
Will all the islamists on these boards please learn the syntax of the English language. It is near impossible to follow your rhetoric. Otherwise please blog and comment in a language you know.
Babar, you are right on all points. Don’t get get bogged down in useless debate with the jahils. No point. No one has given this woman the benefit of the doubt. Her full name has been spread around the country with all accusations. In a civilized country the accusers have to prove their case. If Islam puts burden of proof on the accused then it is the most flawed ustice system.
Babar I must appreciate you, adnan from which camp did you learn how to make bombs, you taliban are the people who only knows that others who are not fuckinfreaks like you are kafirs and God has given you all the rights and duty of running this world in any way like, you are the most disgusted type on the face of the earth, you only uses the name of Islam. the verses you quote from quran, but you merely knows what is the context, QURAN SAYS: LA IKRAH FIDDIN, to be a muslim first become human.
My Dear Ali,
Before you start typing with such pontificating and condescending undertones I strongly suggest you pull your head out of your own arse somewhat.
Rather than patronizing your fellow citizens with such arrogance (whom might I add, speak Urdu as their first language, I think it is safe to assume) I would urge you to learn how to spell elementary English words such as “justice” which you appear to spell incorrectly in your last post pertaining to the syntax of the English language!
The biggest threat the country is facing is not from India ro any externalpower but from the mullah. They are out to out do all the progress and development. Eliminate the maulvi for the sake of progress, which in turn reduce poverty by creating employment opportunty. Mullahs have no stakes in a progressing Pakistan as their educational background renders them useless in any meaningful field and thus their efforts to reincarnate the Arabia of yore or the Afghanistan of the Taliban. It is a power politics by them. They know they will remain marginalizaed in a liberal, educated and progressing Pakistan.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=49111
Today’s The News has an excellent editorial on the subject.
I agree to JAY JAY. The article is so comprehensive that you should read it:
Salem ‘witch’ trials revisited
The chilling events of recent days in the federal capital are reminiscent of the notorious Salem witch trials of late seventeenth century America in which several women and men were burnt at the stake and imprisoned for indulging in witchcraft and being in league with the devil. There trials, if they could be called that, were conducted by magistrates and the method of ‘investigation’ was to basically coerce them into a confession or sometimes on apparitions seen by the afflicted persons, who claimed to have seen a shape or figure resembling the ‘witch’. Apparently, Islamabad itself seems to have caught on to this witch-hunt, though almost four centuries late.
Perhaps the only slightly positive aspect to this whole Jamia Hafsa affair is that the police have registered FIRs against some students of the Jamia Hafsa in Islamabad and their patrons in Lal Masjid on charges of abduction and kidnapping three women, a minor and two policemen and for forcibly trying to close down shops. However, it is a matter of great shame that a woman who was kidnapped by these students was only released after she was made to ‘repent’ for her ’sins’ in front of national and international media. In any case, the FIR has been sealed which means its investigation may well be put in cold storage. The whole sordid episode as recounted by the kidnapped woman once she was freed (after being held against her will by these extremists for over two days — as the government stood by) means that these extremists can barge into just about anyone’s house based on their view of what is going on inside it, kidnap the residents and by force make them admit to their sins. That the government let this happen is disgraceful because now these elements will feel so emboldened that one cannot rule out further such vigilantism in future by other like-minded obscurantists. Not only that, what are law-abiding citizens to think of all of this — that it is now open season for kidnappers, abductors, vigilantes, extremists, etc.?
Further evidence of back-pedalling comes when one reads the remarks made by the minister of state for interior to a foreign news network in which he said that the government was showing the utmost of patience because the matter involved women. This is most disingenuous and seems to suggest that the minister is implying that if women were to take the law into their own hands, the government would sit by and watch ‘patiently’. Surely, the Islamabad police has female constables and officers who can do the job if the matter is that sensitive. One suspects that this sensitivity is not really because of the fact that these vigilantes are women (since the government has no qualms baton-charging or arresting women who happen to be lawyers, NGO activists, journalists or in the political opposition) but because it reflects an extremely unfortunate tendency to waiver in taking decisive and prompt action against extremist and obscurantist elements in society.
Peaceful protests are something no sane person will object to, even if they think those protesting are wrong. But what the Hafsa ’students’ have been doing is an affront to just about anything a civilised society should hold dear. One thing is for sure: if these ’students’ and their patrons are not hauled up for this blatant violation of the law, then incidents of such moral policing will take place in other parts of the country as well. One hopes that the government will have better sense not to treat this as an exaggerated view but something born out of facts and past experience. When agreements were made in parts of FATA between local pro-Taliban militants and the government, it had been warned that this would lead to increasing Talibanisation of these areas, which it did. The government was also warned that this scourge of intolerance, extremism and bigotry would spread beyond FATA, which it did as well, but no attention was taken and elements that wanted to impose their own obscurantist version of religion by force on everyone else were allowed to act with impunity. Now, this cancer has spread to the centre of government, with a moral police having the audacity to kidnap and hold hostage two officers of the state, and abduct three women along with a minor.
Those behind these extremist acts need to be sent a strong message that it is the responsibility of the government and its law-enforcement agencies to ensure that legal action, including a search, is taken against any brothel or gambling den. However, that can only take place if there is credible evidence and a warrant authorised by a court of law. It seems that the students of Jamia Hafsa think that if men visit a house, that house is a brothel. By that logic many establishments in this country would qualify, according to the yardstick adopted by these students, as ‘brothels’. Furthermore, it is not for individuals or even groups of people to decide and judge others and then, based on that judgment, raid their homes, kidnap them and force them to admit to their sins before the media. When that begins to happen, society comes very close to anarchy, with any member feeling it within his or her purview to interpret the law according to his whims and acting to enforce that interpretation with one’s own resources. It was precisely to give up that kind of living that societies were created. Those who act in this way are clearly outside the pale of the law as well as civil society. If they feel that they cannot obey the laws of the state because they are bound only to a ‘higher’ law then clearly there is going to be a problem because when one lives in a society or community, one does so with the understanding that all rules and regulations in such a society or community will have to be followed — there is no room for exceptions. One only hopes that the government has the courage and the wisdom to see how important it is that these vigilantes are hauled up and prosecuted for all their many illegal acts. Or otherwise, its lack of commitment in dealing with such elements, in massive contradiction to its professed stance on handling extremism and Talibanisation, is bound to make many people think that this moral policing has the tacit approval of the government.
jayJay darling, your forefathers died by keeping the wish in their hearts to remove mullahs/Islam from face of earth. They were more powerful and influential than you. When they couldn’t do anything then what’s your worth? I always enjoy your babbling. Keep it up as it just entertains many people :-)
پریس کانفرنس میں سول سوسائٹی کے نمائندوں نے کہا کہ اسلام آباد میں بڑھتی ہوئی انتہا پسندی کی وجہ سے بعض خواتین نے سیر کے لیے واک پر جانا چھوڑ دیا ہے جبکہ انہیں ایسی رپورٹیں بھی ملی ہیں کہ بعض نامعلوم افراد ان گاڑیوں کے نمبر نوٹ کر رہے ہیں جو خواتین چلا رہی ہیں۔
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2007/03/070331_hafsa_ngos_rs.shtml
Adnan if someone claims he is from Pakistan army like this idiot Fauzan, dont pay attention. many indian bastard trolls are present and create disturbances. He called army bastartd himself.
Second these liberal goons remind me of the Gucci revolutionists of Libnan. They sereved their masters well but then the mama washington severed the imbilical cord and started showering bombs on them. All these stupid goons were hiding behind the islamists.
Dont worry these creatures dont even count when things start to heat up. The coming days are of great geopolitical significance. The coming days will dictate the future of this region. When time was right, they ignored and basked naked and did nothing.
They are as the saying goes nothing more than foam on the surface.
BREAKING NEWS
Anuty Shamim has adopted Babar and Fauzaan as her sons. They are very happy and and seems to do fine in their new role as ‘dalay’.
Last time they were seen counting money in front of the house of their new mama.
@News Special: Are you jealous? :)
No
Looks like you are their relative. Whats the going rate in your house? Ask your baji she if she is not busy making money in the bed.
LOL
he he he…yeah you are jealous. :)
Naa munnaa why should I be jelous of my bastard sons.
By the way remember when you asked your mummy why dont you look like your papa? And how she tried to hide something.
Well when you will see me you will know who your real father is.
But sonny its not my fault. Your mama promised she will abort you. You be the judge, how many bastard sons I can have? Babar, Fauzaan and now you.
Aaah qismat kay khail niralay.
Geetay raho meray laal.
P.S I paid full in advace, just in case your mummy try to blacmail me. I have all the reciepts.
@JantaMan: He’s not Indian. Second thing is that Pakistani Army people are the desi version of ignorant Americans who are not aware of things happening in their surroundings and they keep beliving that word revolve around them. This fauzan kid is still living in 1965 and keep singing praises of 65 war and not aware how Army screwed this country severely. Someone should tell him that milli songs like Pakistani fauj k jawan hain hum doesn’t sound good anymore.
All these stupid goons were hiding behind the islamists
*nods*- they are like that- “Moo k cammando”. Practically Zero. They are kids who can just do drawing room politics nothing else.
Something similar happened in 0ct 05 earth quake when people who are called militants by them played main role to help people who got affected due to earthquake and that liberal dictator also had acknolwedged that.
@adnan
you are right about these tin soldiers. did you note the theratening language of this stupid fauzan. so here is the list he can shove up if he thinks poeple dont know about the illuminati/satanists and their foot soldiers in pakistan.
do you find anything common in all the terrorist attacks which happened on 9/11 7/11 3/11 ? i’ll tell ya, 11 is a cabalist satanic number. muslims are innocent and blamed wrongly. these attacks were carried out by the western sercert agencies under the illuminati influence. Fauzaan and his likes should know magnitude of people know this.
People like Fauzan will be very happy to erect a phalus monument in islamaabad like the one in washington and start worshiping it.
they are sick lot with no roots. they remind me of the rejected bastard child by his parents (usa) who always tries to go back to them and recieves nothig but slaps but keeps on trying.
@News Special wrote:
in their new role as ‘dalay’
ha ha ha dalay meaning pimps? thats a good one ha ha ha
While people are fighting here over this controversy, does any one realise who is getting all the benefit out of it? Why are those who challenged the writ of the government right in the middle of the capital have not been taken to task as of yet and are still at large? While people are being bombed in north and south waziristan?
I guess this issue is being backed up by the government who probably want to take people’s attention off the Chief Justice Reference case. They are averting any action just to avoid any further crises, or perhaps let this issue get more volatile so the true face of fundamentalists is brought out wide an open and every starts to look down upon them. More importantly, the CJ trial case gets pushed out of the back door.
Do think about that aspect as well.
Oye Babar toon aunty shamim daa dallaa ain? kuti diya putraa
Dear commentators on this blog,
First of all I would like to thank all of you for your valuable input to this post. We have seen great points comming in from both sides of the table, and like any other debate, there have been many heated arguments which is a good thing.
However, I would request everyone to refrain from any abusive language, slandering, swearing, and cursing anyone. The whole world is watching us and no matter what our preferences and prejudices are, we should ensure that we convey them with dignity, and honour others’ points of view as well.
I am afriad I will have to moderate further comments that involve any foul language or abusive personal remarks towards any of the fellow posters. I would request again not to launch personal attacks involving derogatory remarks at each other.
Thanking you in advance for all your cooperation. Have a great day!
Backpacker
Islamabad Metroblog Team
I have just one question.Is veil part of Islam.Quote any ayat on this.If somebody murders wearing a veil then she cannot be identified which means it is an unnatural thing and doesnt match the spirit of Islam.
These women should be canned on their bums with the same sticks that they are carrying.
Tera Daddy’s comment has been deleted due to use of abusive language against a commentator
@Don Carlos: your alias suits you well. No doubt your IQ level is not more than my shoe size
The quality of the language coming from the pro-islamic camp confirms what is in stores for us if the country somehow gets talibanized. At least civilized outlook will not be something they will be proudly displaying with their narrow version of religion.
Don see this link http://akramsrazor.typepad.com/islam_america/2007/03/salafis_kalam_a.html#postscript
The quality of the language coming from
yeah your supreme leader Minister Wasi Zafar[aka Big Arm] is a product of taliban.
JayJay/Mullah from hell: Why do you need to change alias? your lunatic rants are enough to recognize you.
Don Carlos’s comment has been deleted due to use of abusive language against a commentator
koi mujhay islam mein burkay par ayat quote karay plz.
The verse quoted above is for Umhat e momineen.how can ordinary people observe veil.it is impractical.many women have to earn their living and for their families as well.During haj no body obsrves veil.stop this bidat.molvee khud tharkee hein or nahee chahtay kay un kee orton kee poondee kee jay.
I will stress again on the premise:
—-
True Islam, is, was, and never will be spread by the way of the sword or sticks. There is nothing wrong with spreading the message of Islam but there IS wrong in waving sticks and threatening people to follow the norms of ANY religion!
—-
A friend of mine and his mother (she wears a hijab and is in her late 50s) was poked with sticks by these burqa clad women and was taunted for being ‘be-sharam’ because she was not wearing a burqa like them. The guy was poked because he did not have a beard and was not wearing his jeans above his ankles. Is that how our Holy Prophet (PBUH) spread Islam? By threatening people around him? Is this how a religion was dubbed as ‘peace for all mankind’? I don’t think so.
I don’t care if that aunty was a pimp. I don’t care if those burqa clad women said in an interview that they came out on the streets because they have been oppressed by commandos. If they have issues with a certain faction of the society, they should vent their anger out on them only.
If they are so bent upon spreading nobility in the society, then lead by example… not by threats and force. The only thing you spread is fear and blasphemy. Think about it.
You are right Fauzan. The more I study the situation the more I see the invisible hand of Govt behind it. Just note the timing. With the CJP case backfiring, they are looking for some excuse, infact any excuse.
This is old tactics of divide and rule. And this time around, they are instigating it between the liberal and religious minded people.
Conclusion for both parties: Do not avert your attention from the CJP situation.
In burkay walyon kee bund pay litar phairnay chaheeyain.
Burka is the most seductive thing.It gives ideas of what would be there under the smooth,SILKY and shiny stuff.
Don da Abu’s comment has been deleted due to use of abusive language against a commentator
backpacker da daddy comment has been deleted due to use of abusive language against a commentator
Sir, As I said earlier any comments targetted at specific comentators would be deleted. That includes you or anyone. If you scroll up you can see Don Carlos’s comments were also deleted for the same reason.
I would have to ask you to vent your abusive frustrations out somewhere else, not on this blog. Here you follow the rules of the metroblog. If you can’t simply leave.
You get abusive against any commentator here and your comments get deleted.
Thanks,
Backpacker
Islamabad Metroblog Team
molvee bachay baz.tharkee
in burkay waleeon kee tharak khatm karo or asal danday in kay haton mein pakrao.
pata lagay danday di bajayee teeli lagi hoi ai khusray nohn
hahahaha
dondadaddy’s comment has been deleted due abusive language against a commentator
dondadaddy’s comment has been deleted due abusive language against a commentator
molvee bachay baz.tharkee
hahaha bachpan ka experience bol raha hai
I am not at all disappointed by the whole scenario. I am optimistic when people will realize that there is nothing to gain from religeous and liberal extemeism, they will automatically take the path of real moderate Islam.
There is light at the other end of the tunnel.
don carlos’s comment has been deleted due abusive language against a commentator
don carlos’s comment has been deleted due abusive language against a commentator
dondadaddy’s comment has been deleted due abusive language against a commentator
Don Brother. please take care. maybe this person is just trying to provoke you against others. maybe this is what he wants? many times i have seen indians and others making this filthy attempt.
kindly ignore him. the saying goes when dogs bark, one does not do the same them.
i hope you understand this bhai.
Adnan Siddiqi said: “JayJay/Mullah from hell: Why do you need to change alias? your lunatic rants are enough to recognize you.”
Adnan:I am not Mullah from anywhere as it is your area of speciality. I know the comments from Mullah from Hell were hurtful to you as they must have hit the right spot. Truth is bitter, isn’t it. Don’t ever think of aligning or comparing with any Mullah.
OK,Thanks optimist,I ll certainly ignore this person.all I wanted to say was that what if these women were inocent.Without any evidence,without trial they have been defamed and almost everybody seems to believe it.How would they survive in this narrow minded society.Think of all the psychlogical trauma for the 6 months old when she grows up.Is this Islam,the religion of peace.It is not peace for anyone.Mufti Naeem Ahmed,a deoband scholar today told Dr Shahid masood that he had been carrying out negociations with Govt for Molvi of Lal masjid as there were some cases against him.Also this madrasa is illegaly built.They are using the situation to just get the political and ecnomical gains.How can an illegal madrasa be Islamic.This is the time we should reject the Mull’s Islam which was rejected by Iqbal and many other muslim scholars.May Allah save us from molvism.My question remains.Is veil Islamic.Any verse regarding Burqa.How will a murderer in Vail be identified.
OK,Thanks optimist,I ll certainly ignore this person.all I wanted to say was that what if these women were inocent.Without any evidence,without trial they have been defamed and almost everybody seems to believe it.How would they survive in this narrow minded society.Think of all the psychlogical trauma for the 6 months old when she grows up.Is this Islam,the religion of peace.It is not peace for anyone.Mufti Naeem Ahmed,a deoband scholar today told Dr Shahid masood that he had been carrying out negociations with Govt for Molvi of Lal masjid as there were some cases against him.Also this madrasa is illegaly built.They are using the situation to just get the political and ecnomical gains.How can an illegal madrasa be Islamic.This is the time we should reject the Mull’s Islam which was rejected by Iqbal and many other muslim scholars.May Allah save us from molvism.My question remains.Is veil Islamic.Any verse regarding Burqa.How will a murderer in Vail be identified.
How can a poor woman who is a sweeper or lets say works on a brick bhatta observe veil.is islam only for NOBEL.May be than other religions are better suited for poors.I am a muslim just trying to wake you up that ceratin culural traditions became part of the religion and are actually bidats.
observing VEIL is nnot Islamic rather it was a tradition observed by rich people.It is responsible for polarization and defaming Islam.It is against the nature and certainly doesnot suit a poor working lady.
observing VEIL is nnot Islamic rather it was a tradition observed by rich people.It is responsible for polarization and defaming Islam.It is against the nature and certainly doesnot suit a poor working lady.
Don brother, I am no authority on Islam so I will refrain from making any suggestion.
But there is a difference between mullah and alim.
As Iqbal said:
Mullah ki azaan aur hai Mujahid ki azaan aur.
I think he summerized the whole situation in this one phrase.
Mulla’ Islam does not have any tolerance whereas Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance.What happens during Haj.women walk around without burka and shoulder to shoulder with men.
you r not alim so that stops you from even thinking even.Come on these r just common sense questions.
how can a poor working woman observe veil.
wearing veil is against the very fundamentals of islam.
wearing a veil is just a superficial gesture trying to prove that you r more pious.
Do these talibat in hifza madrasa perform any social service or just matar gasht around doing poondee.Halwa khore molvans.
These molvis are social parasites.Lazy buggers.
Bhai at the present sensitive time I would say these are non issues.
I am more concerned by these. Have a look:
http://www.newworldslaughter.blogspot.com/
Elimination of 85 percent of world population is going to happen.
So fight over veil can carry on if one survives the New World Order.
I call edhi,hakeem saeed,imran khan,and others who are doing social service true muslims and true mujahids.These daree waly munafiqs are the biggest tragedy of islam.
so you are fighting aginst america by abducting a woman and her 3 daughters.WOW…..Great .osam
We can only respond to outside threats by eliminating the extreemism of all kinds.Look what is happening in Iraq.more damage at the hands of own people than invaders.Just imagine these fanatics running around in Islamabad with dandas and kulharees.Will you feel safe.This has happened in Afghanistan.Atleast majority of Pakistanis hate this kind of Islam.
Eman ka sab say nichla darja yeh hay kay burai say nafrat kee jai.Yeh kalay burkay mein liptee burai hay.Khud ko doosron say afzakl samajhna ikhlaq ka deewalya pan hay.
Why are you accusing me of anything? I quoted Iqbal to tell you what I think of diff between mullah and alim.
I am not following your logic here?
as far as NWO is going, did you listen what king abdullah had to say? he said we will not fight ww3 for usa. iraq has already lost 20 percent of its population and counting. europe lost more than 20 percnet of population during ww2. the policy is to destroy and recreate in its image. iraq was liberal look how it was treated.
brother ww3 is in the making. for God sake do not put the blame on me.
King Fahad is to blame for disturbing the world balance of power.Do you know his role in the downfall of USSR.we wre also frontline allies.The vacume created caused all the trouble.Now America is on a power trip.Americans ar