Going Back - 10th July 2007
10th July 2007 passed marking a huge spot not only in Islamabad’s history, but in Pakistan’s too. The year 2007 remained eventful throughout, till now and it’s just the seventh month. Giving no margins and no breaks to anyone.
What happened during lal masjid siege and the whole saga was something that will should leave us thinking of where things went wrong, how this extremism started, and well if it’s extremism at all?? Stance may have been right but implementation was wrong. Stance may have been right but how can you justify the many strings attached to the whole scene and were “reported” now and then??
On this I want to quote Hafiz saying these wonderful words … centuries back
Candle’s story how can I tell?
Of the broken heart’s living hell?
My sorrow is in how I can find
Another who knows these sorrows well.نی قصه آن شمع چگل بتوان گفـت
نی حال دل سوخته دل بتوان گفـت
غم در دل تنگ من از آن است که نیست
یک دوست که با او غم دل بتوان گفت
Taking a picturesque review (courtesy Dawn, DT, Khabrain) of the events we went through just in one day. Correction: We only saw and opinionated en rage … and people suffered.
Lal Masjid SITE
The pictures show some events that took place during Operation Silence at Lal Masjid. A family member of a seminary student is in tears, while policewomen head towards the surrender point to handle the female students rescued from Jamia Hafsa. Armymen move towards the combat zone as smokes come out of Lal Masjid
And who suffered the most?? The families of not only the students but security officers too!!
With media now reporting about Lal Masjid’s media center, Explosions still going to detonate if any explosive material is inside, and burial preparations are up in Rojhan Mazari …!
That was a lot we had to see and digest in one day … isn’t it so??
So what lessons we are going to learn??
Tags: Lal Masjid , Islamabad, Islamabad Seige, Jameya Hafsa, Jameya Fareedia, Lal Masjid siege
I feel so sad and frustrated. At the 11th hour when Ch. Shujaat and some scholars had agreed the terms of surrender, he went to Musharaff for approval and came back with a completely different terms and conditions. The scholars and Ch. Shujaat were then told by the commander of the operation to hurry up and approve this in 5min.
From a point of surrender to a bloodbath in moments. It seems the Army was determined to scupper any terms of surrender and go ahead with the killing of M.Ghazi.
It is no surprise that on the very same day accolades are rolling in from around the world praising Musharraf for his “valiant” stand against extremism, and on Tuesday the US started delivery of the F-16 planes.
Musharaff has secured his seat for a few moments longer, but at what expense for all of us who live and work in Islamabad, Pakistan? How does the world view us now? With disdain and suspicion, we are country which “breeds” extremists - look they were found in Islamabad.
The truth is that the Army used M Ghazi in the early 90’s and now when there was no further use, it was expediant to kill him.
When will this ever stop.
MAJID: What right a terrorist, armed to the teeth with weapons holding children and women hostage, had in putting conditions and terms for a surrender? He should have surrendered to the authorities unconditionally to save his life and those of dozens of others. He could have done before the military seige, on the first day of the seige, on teh second day of the seige …. on the very last day of the seige. Even after the start of the operation. I doubt anyone else in the history has been given so many chances and the givernemnt had been leniet toward these two brothers to the extend of negligence. Read in today’s Dawn what a neutral and humanist person like Edhi has to say about Maulvi Rasheed.
Rasheed was a religious leader after all; he should have set an example of leading a law-abiding and peaceful life. His students specially looked at Maulvi Rasheed as a guide but what lesson he ended up teaching them - a lesson of violence, hatred and criminality. He cleric should be a man of peace and humanity but not so here. A religious leader is expected to have higher moral and ethical standards than the sinful. A religious leader is the flag-bearer of his religion. What message do you think Maulvi Rasheed end up portraying to the world about Islam? Who will believe in the rhetoric that “Islam is a religion of peace”, when deeds of high and might of religion belie this assertion.
@Majid .. so true , Mufti-e-azam pakistan and other senior ulemas had almost succeeded in negotiating a peaceful end to this drama but at the last minute govt back out of its stance and brig cheema asked Mulana Fazal rehman khalil,who earlier had met with president, to negotiate on new terms within 30 mins at around 2:30 am..
i also made comment about Maulana Khalil..
“Mulana Fazal rehman khalil govt’s top negotiator (blue eyed of army and agencies just like Maulana Ghazi’s dad Maulana Abdullah was blue eyed of Ayub and Zia) is cheif of Harkat ul Mujahideen and Harkat-ul-Ansar .. an organisation banned by American State department and this gentleman is also wanted by indians.. problem with our army and agencies is that first they flirt with these type of people and once they’re used and objective acheived then they’re killed just like Maulana Ghazi was killed today.. similarly MQM was used by Mush on 12th may to kill around 50 people in karachi.. currently altaf bai and his party are blue eyed of dictator so they’re not held accountable for the sins they committed on 12th may when they brutally murdered 50 karachiite, but when ever their will be change of leadership in army or politics then an operation would be launched against them and terrorists get busted or not but innocent karachiites would definitely suffer… so army operation is not a solution to every problem, dictator just tries to resolve every problem militarily….”
According to Talat Hussain of Ajj tv govt and army is busy doctoring the evidence on site before taking the media inside to give credibility to its own version which govt has been projecting in front of the media and whole worlds.. As Maulana Ghazi said that once they take over the Masjid then can put even Atom Bomb to show it to media later on.. ISPR is just acting like PTV news with no credibility at all…
I will choose Edhi over 1000 mulahs any day, when it comes truth and credibility.
From DAWN http://dawn.com.pk/2007/07/11/top10.htm
ISLAMABAD, July 10: Having been part of the late-night negotiations between the authorities and Maulana Abdul Rasheed Ghazi to avert bloodshed at the Lal Masjid-Jamia Hafsa compound, Pakistan?s leading social worker Maulana Abdul Sattar Edhi told Dawn after the launch of pre-dawn ?operation Silence? on Tuesday that he had known all along that the obstinate ?Maulvi? would not listen.
?I knew from the first day that ?Maulvi? does not listen,? said Mr Edhi remorsefully amid the roaring sound of combat operation, eight hours after all attempts to peacefully resolve the Lal Masjid crisis failed.
?This is all a consequence of (Ghazi?s) stubbornness,? is how he summed it up as he looked on helplessly and desolately.
His message for the people of Pakistan, particularly to thousands of Madaris throughout the country was: ?Pursue peace, be humane and shun arms and militancy.?
With a distant look in his eyes, the 84-year-old frail Edhi, whose feet were swollen, observed: ?Aagar mein bhee ziddi hota tu kamyab na hota? (If I was also stubborn I would not have succeeded).
Edhi had 60 ambulances parked in the area as he sat under a green leafy tree with the sun pouring down on the capital?s curfew-hit G-6 sector. Clad in his typical tatty militia outfit and cap, he recalled his three-minute telephonic conversation with Rasheed Ghazi at about 10.30pm on Monday, during which he pleaded for a compromise.
?I advised him against blackmail and reminded him that Islam does not allow killing of innocent people in the name of jihad,? Edhi recounted. But he said the Maulana?s response was: ?Yeh Allah ki marzi hai (This is God?s will)? and then disconnected the phone. Edhi tried calling him again but gave up when there was no response even after four attempts.
Edhi believed that the government had shown flexibility and had even respected his call for a ceasefire on Monday afternoon. ?The government was willing for a compromise but unfortunately Maulana Abdul Rashid was not forthcoming,? he noted.
Edhi said he knew the operation was inevitable when told by the authorities to go and rest at 11.00pm. Edhi received the next call at 3.30am and he rushed to the scene with his ambulances and staff. That was a signal that operation was about to be launched, he said.
He told Dawn that the authorities had sought the services of only six Edhi Foundation ambulances to carry six injured men to the hospital until 1.30pm.
According to him, he had arrived in the capital at his own initiative just a day after returning from New York. He, however, said his wife came here last week after she was directly approached by President Musharraf.
Operation Silence had several objective many of them of already being discussed and known to the public, but there are few other which are not obvious. I would discuss those in these comments.
Fear of Army: During the CJP saga it was becoming clear that urban people are getting more and more vocal against the army. The fear of army which used to be hallmark during Zia era and in 90’s was now fading. It was important for army to make sure that people realize the might of army. For this purpose the things like curfew , heavy bombing and if you are following the press briefing from DG ISPR you will realize how that fear is deliberately being instilled in the public. Not only public but upper class people were getting less afraid of army might, if anybody has seen the interview from Mufti Taqi , he was reluctant to tell what was changed in the agreement he also mentioned how the commander (perhaps Lt. Gen Tariq Majeed) said rudely to all the people to get the agreement done in half an hour. The whole story will be never known about this, but it seems that army objective was fulfilled. Here are few of my predictions that will show if this objective was fully achieved.
1. Supreme Court will announce a favorable decision for PM (Pervez Musharraf).
2. Lawyers (specially likes of Kurd) will now be silenced.
Objective 2: coming later.
Objective 2: It was difficult for army to take actions against the people who were vocal during the CJP saga. This was due to the fact that these people were actually “Liberals” and any action against them would raise an international outcry. Since this distincion (Liberal Lawyers and Fanatics Moulvis) was very obvious during the CJP rallies. It was imperative to somehow make sure that the CJP rallies should somehow be branded as radicalist mullahs so that any action against them can be construed as action against radicals for the consumption of international media. The achievement of this objective is not yet known however following predictions will show how much this have been achieved.
1. In the upcoming days most of the rallies whether from CJP (which it seems to me will not be many) or from the public against this operations (which will obviously be labeled as radical) , there will be strict actions during these rallies.
2. Some of the vocal lawyers are either going the arrested or will be silenced during the days to follow.
who is dumber?
1. ulemas who do gaali galoch with each other on chand raat over sighting of the moon? (reminder: last year, first of eid was separated on three different days)
2. people who still continue to follow the ulema and take their words at face value.
i would vote for #2.
jayjay > That is an amazing article. Thank you for posting it. I, too, would rather believe Mr.Edhi instead of 1000s of army members or news reporters. He and his family are truly one of, if not the most heroic Pakistanis/Humans alive.
I agree with some of the comments earlier, the maulvis have done no credit by stashing arms in whats supposed to be a centre of learning, but they while they were doing this they were the darlings of the Army top brass.
In all this uproar it now seems clear to me that these two brothers and thier followers were given the rope to hang themselves by the Army, this issue could have been dealt with a lot sooner and without bloodshed.
As for the two brothers, they should have exhausted all legal means like the courts and the police before ever considering direct action. At this time the courts would surely have acted against any prostitutes or raids on the madrassa - if they were sincere in their cause.
It all comes down to the lack of basic education we are giving our children in Pakistan. Most dont know how to live in a society, and all of them definately see that MIGHT IS RIGHT, USE THE GUN AND YOU HAVE POWER - remember General sahb is the best educator in this regard.
Here is some good I would like to say about Molana Abdul Rasheed. He knew it that talks would not succeed. He knew that demands he was making will never be accepted. Its my opinion that after shame inflicted by his elder brother he was left with no option but to seek suicide or martydom, whichever way you see it. He wanted an honourable exit, which I blv he got in the end.
I feel sorry for his brother though, he will have to live with this shame for the rest of his life. He instigated all this and left. His brother tried to salvage as much pride as he could and paid the ultimate price.
Musharraf blamed for talks failure
By Ahmed Hassan(DAWN)
ISLAMABAD July 10: Ulema and office-bearers of Wafaqul Madaris, led by Mufti Rafi Usmani, who took part in the last-ditch negotiations with Abdul Rashid Ghazi on Monday night, have held President Gen Pervez Musharraf responsible for the failure of talks.
The ulema claimed on Tuesday that President Musharraf had completely changed the draft agreement, which had been formulated after several hours. However, the leader of the government team and PML President Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain defended the official position. He said the draft was only given a “legal shape” and not changed drastically.
Speaking at a news conference here, Mufti Rafi Usmani said: “Responsibility for the failure of negotiations with Ghazi and the resultant killing of hundreds of people squarely lies on the shoulders of Gen Musharraf.”
Talking to media persons in the wee hours of Tuesday, the PML president claimed that the draft prepared by the government after thorough consultations with the ulema was not changed, but given a legal shape at the presidency. He said Abdul Rashid Ghazi had been informed that it was necessary to keep him under house arrest for security reasons.
However, the Wafaqul Madaris office-bearers said all the three points agreed in the draft were changed to make them unacceptable for the Lal Masjid people. Explaining, he said it was agreed that Mr Ghazi along with his family and personal belongings would be shifted to his village, which was changed to “legal action will be taken after his house arrest in his village”.
The section dealing with the associates of Ghazi –who were to be detained for inquiry and those found innocent were to be sent home — was also totally changed. Similarly, the ulema alleged, the portion concerning the fate of Lal Masjid, Jamia Hafsa and Jamia Fareedia was also changed.
The ulema, including Maulana Salimullah, Qari Hanif Jallandhri and Maulana Abdul Malik, said Chaudhry Shujaat chose to take the draft to the presidency after its preparation by Maulana Zahid-ur-Rashdi and minister of state for information Tariq Azim Khan.
They alleged that when the official team came back, they alleged the whole draft was changed which was obviously rejected by Ghazi.
They said, “We differed with the modus operandi adopted by the Ghazi brothers but we were in agreement with their cause for reconstruction of demolished mosques and Islamisation of the society”. Chaudhry Shujaat said that it appeared from the talks that Abdul Rashid Ghazi was forced by the militants inside the mosque to bring up the question of foreigners during the final phase of the negotiations.
Shujaat said Abdul Rashid Ghazi was seeking time to consult his companions which showed that he was not acting independently. Mr Hussain expressed disappointment over the failure of dialogue held between Ulema delegation and Ghazi.
“I have never been so disappointed in my life but I am leaving this place with extreme dejection,” the PML president told media men shortly after his last telephonic conversation with Abdul Rashid Ghazi.
http://dawn.com/2007/07/11/nat2.htm
Edhi says that govt have asked him to make arrangements for 300+ burials.. while earlier he was saying 800+ shrouds for burial of bodies have been asked by govt… ISPR’s Gen Waheed says that Edhi is himself comming up with these figures and neither govt nor army have ordered any such thing from him…
While I support little of PM’s government actions, I think he is in a difficult place within Pakistan.
How do you deal with militant Islam within a Muslim country when so many sympathize with the militants, if not with all of their exact techniques?
That said, PM has made a few bad decisions for the people of Pakistan and its future, although real politik analyses might see his decisions as necessary.
With the buildup of heavy weaponry in a mosque, booby trapping entrances with explosives, and enlisting the support of militants with advanced weapons training, there was little chance of accomodation between the mosque inhabitants/particpants and the government.
The situation at the mosque was allowed to go so far for the same reason the radical madrassas throughout many of the areas in Pakistan are allowed to preach the style of jihad that okays killing women, children, and other non-combatants. It is not supportable, but will probably continue to happen. The move against the mosque might indicate a positive change in the posture, but it will take cooperation and shared vision between PM and the people of Pakistan, or the strain will increase.
What portion of the population embraces sharia and thinks it should be universally applied? What kind of violent reaction to the enforcement action will follow? What support for the Taliban exists? What is the level of support for Taliban-esque organizations? What kind of move can be made to a liberal representative government where the population distances itself from militancy?
We will see…
If only all “Maulvis” and “religious” schools acted the way Maulana Edhi does.
I said in an earlier comment that this wouldn’t have occured if the THOUSANDS of burqa-walis and militant mullahs had never taken up arms and instead started aiding the poor people, the hungry people, the down trodden of society. Instead they started terrorising the same people they should have been helping.
I can’t understand how someone could think that the Taliban’s Afghanistan was the ideal society.
This whole event was a tragedy no matter how you look at it. These THOUSANDS of militants had so much potential to do great things. Instead they laid their lives to waste. It’s not their fault. It’s the fault of poverty and lack of education and role models.
I only hope that more and more people start seeing people like Maulana Edhi as their role model.
The real Culprit is the Army and its Dictator and its supporters.
Now before you start Judging my comments please read below.
Q: what made the maulvies, mullah that strong that they are able to create State within a State?
Q: Are Maulvies more dangerous or the elements which are using them to create instability.
Q: What group/ organization/party was responsible in facilitating the spread of Kalashnikov and Drugs in our society?
Given below is the Answer from Wikipedia which summarizes all:
“Pakistan’s longest ruling military dictator, General Zia-ul-Haq, as well as subsequent ISI officials had very close relationships with Maulana Abdullah, the former head of the mosque, who had a long history of fanning sectarianism. During the Soviet war in Afghanistan (1979-1989) the mosque played a major role in recruiting and training jihadis to fight with the Afghan mujahideen.[2]
After Abdullah was assassinated in the 1990s, his sons Abdul Aaziz Ghazi and Abdul Rashid Ghazi took over the mosque, making it a centre for hardline Sunni Deobandi teaching and openly opposing the government.”
Regards
Sajid > Agreed. The root of all this is definitely Zia-ul-Haq.
Oh Please give me a break, the problem of Pakistan is anyone with the beard is labeled as Mufti or Maulana, the fact of the matter is that these bearded fellows know nothing about Islam. They have ruined the true fabric of Pakistan Society.
In order for Pakistan to progress forward we need to get rid of bearded so called leaders of Islam. Ordinary person knows more about Islam than these Mullah’s. A decent society does not need these Mullah’s to lead a country.
Musharraf need to do one more right thing for the country i.e Get rid of all these Madrassah’s these are breeding grounds for future trouble. A person will be a lot better with no fanatic material brainwashed into the mind as these madrassahs have done.
In a moderate Pakistan society there in no need for these fanatic religous leaders, religion has nothing do with politics. So Bravo Musharraf and go all the way and set Pakistan free from these religious biggots. And the media Channels such as Geo needs to grow up and think of doing good to the country rather than returning favors to Nawaz Sharif and Benazir. Pakistan does not need democracy as your channels have been crying out loud for another 10 years. Nawaz Shrif and Benazir are a bunch of thugs who dont care anything about democracy, had they believed in Democracy they should had done their individual party elections. People should ask for party elections first as we want to see different faces and are sick and tired of seeing the same old bald ugly chubby faces for the last 20-30 years.
http://www.dawn.com/2007/07/11/nat2.htm
Explaining, he said it was agreed that Mr Ghazi along with his family and personal belongings would be shifted to his village, which was changed to “legal action will be taken after his house arrest in his village”.
No wonder the negotiated agreement fell apart, “Mr Ghazi, all we ask is that you go back to your home town”. What is up with that? How could the governments side of the negotiating team offer something with no consequences whatsoever? I cant believe that Ghazi (not to mention the govnt negotiating team) actually thought such an agreement was possible? Of course that is not acceptable.
while on western border(with afghanistan) our army stops militants infiltrating into Afghanisatan coz our American masters have ordered us to stop them, while on eastern border(with India) same militants are armed and facilitated under army’s patronage and infiltrate into india.. our army is seriously messed up…
@ Anwar and all other supporters of Pak Army and or Musharaf.
Pakistan army is root cause of all the mess in Pakistan.
And you are asking for their support to fix the mess. Thats funny.
By the way about 10 years ago I was a strong supporter of Pak Army. I even went to Zia’s Grave to say Prayers. I know many people in our “Honorable” Armed forces and I learned a lot from them.
So I made mistakes but I learned from them.
I can summarize all by quoting ” All the countries have Army but in Pakistan Army has a country”. I read this quote on internet while I was reading a article.
My two cents are: When ever some event occurs. Ask your self few questions
1- Why is this happening?
2- What party/person/entity will benefit from it.
and a little knowledge of history will help too.
I believe every one is expressing thier views on this blog cause they want a better and strong Pakistan
Sajid, I agree with you. Very few people in pakistan will now about operation search light , this operation was carried out by the same army against it’s own people. Now operation silence again against own people. BTW nobody will ever come to know how many children and women died in this operation. They say in the 1971 war this army killed upto 3 million people.
BTW add this
“All army need an enemy , Pakistan army’s enemy are Pakistanis”
to the above quote. To give credit to the army , they have become exceedingly efficient in killing their enemy
according to Mushtaq Minhas of Ajj tv, during the final assault around 285 people died in LAL masjid… and their bodies are currently stored at a cold store in I10 sector, while he told about another shocking news that mass graves are being dug in H11 sector graveyard where these bodies seem to be dumped in mass graves…
seems like our army is involved in those famous crime against humanity like the one that serbia and saddam were accused of… killing there own people and dumping them in mass graves…
aaj tv showed the footage of both cold store with unprecedented security and footage of mass graves being dug….
army was hastily trying to bury Maulana Ghazi’s body in his home town against his wishes,coz he wished to be burried in LAL masjid, his sisters moved to SC and SC took notice and asked the military authorities to facilitate his sisters..
after killing Akbar Bugti, army hastily burried him in dera bugti and didn’t handed his body to his family…
according to aaj Tv’s sources CDA and army is busy planting evidences against Maulanas
many parents those student who were suppose to be at this madarsah are complaining that neither their childeren are among those arrested nor they are among dead.. so either army is trying to cover up the figure of those killed or they’re holding many others without any record…
souls of all those pakistanis that died in this drama will haunt the dictator….
As per the recent updates, a total of 285 people were killed in the operation. While we rant and fight here on the blog, the military government is busy digging mass graves in I-10 for combined burial of many of those civilians who have died in the operation, and a separate operation is under way to puff up Lal Masjid complex for “display” to the media members tomorrow. Hundreds of relatives have no idea of the where abouts of many of have gone missing in the operation. Now that the operation is over, people want to know where have the high profile targets vanished? Was military intelligence so poor prior to conducting the operation that they had to rely on unconfirmed accounts of hostages from within Lal masjid complex? How did a 50-60 group trained militants manage to show resistance against 164 “highly trained” SSG commandoes, who managed to give their officer in command to the militant’s crossfire at the very start of operation. If 40-50 militants were killed, the casualities on the armed forces side were 10. That brings the kill ratio down to 20%. A stagerring high 20%!!! which is embarrassing figure compared to any international standards for a force which “boasts” of having superior military capabilities, and training. That too, on tax prayers money…
I remember after 9-11 the officials incharge of investigations of deaths in the collapse of world trde centers conducted a six months operation to reconstruct profiles of those people who had died in the collapse of world trade center, through DNA samples collected from dental left overs, skin, nails, and in some cases personal belongs of people who had been crushed and incinerated to pieces during the collapse, and here we have a dictator’s military regime fed on the sweat and blood of poor Pakistani nation, whose media campaigns are being officially conducted not by interior minister but by a retired brigadier, who presents himself as a government spokesman and DG ISPR…
seems like dictator would need to contact his friend from MQM to stage another 12th may type massacre to divert media’s attention from this massacre, diverting attention and face saving our military dictator is so good at it…
@ DOCTOR,
My advice to you to have a nurse so you can get media’s attention ! BS, stop throwing out blood from your mouth against Our Govt.
You have no idea no clue about it that how this all work. You just do your doctory OKAY Got it.
NOw Peace.
almost 230 people had died in karachi’s rain related incidents , thousands of people had died in baluchistan and sindh in rain and cyclone affected areas, millions had been displaced and were homeless , and our brutal dictator killed almost 300 more pakistanis timming of all this should be taken into consideration..
APC was being conducted in London, in CJ’s case sc had imposed a fine Rs100000 on govt and one of the govt’s lawyer was suspended for submiting forged documents.. plus Mush badly need a pat on his back from American masters.. so he swiftly took action and killed as many as he could… now mass graves are being dug and tonight hundreds of bodies are expected to be dumped into them.. Iraqi dictator Saddam hussain was accused of massacre and mass graves in Iraq, well here we have our very own Pakistani dictator carrying out massacres in karachi and islamabad and digging mass graves..
Well it seems that every body is hell bent upon making statements and we have ran out of arguments.
Now I see battle lines in Pakistan shifting from Ethnic to Ideological. That is parties of the left and parties of the right. There is already shift in millitary from the right to left under Musharraf, and the likes of Gen. Hameed Gul can only watch and despair. Demographically it means Sindh firmly on left with PPP and MQM. Punjab will be sort of 70/30 b/w left & right. You dont have to guess about frontier. Baluchistan will be again divided b/w left, right and separatist.
This I blv is a positive change, finally we have to decide what Pakistan is all about. How we decide it, will be the indicator of how civilized we really are.
The Zia-ul-Haques Nara:
PAKISTAN KA MUTLAB KYA?
Is again an open question.
Hey @SPIN DOCTOR! Musharraf has a long way to go before he could qualify to be compared with Saddam.
You always single out poor MQM, where as every major political party or its members have been involved in terrorrist acts.
1/ Remember the Airplane hijacking by PSF guys.
2/ The introduction of Kalashinikov culture by Jamiat in Karachi eduation institutions.
3/ Remember how every major Al-Qaeda grab was made at some Jamaati’s residence.
4/ How off-shoots of major religous parties have committed mass murder by suicide attacks, killing Shia professionals in Karachi. Bombing rival mosques and the list goes on.
MQM has just learned the language that others understand and the “others” will have to find something else to kick around.
@ Doctor, Checkmate and WK
I don’t know much about I-10 burials but I know that our army is no good. Only good at conquering its own people.
As far as SSG operational records goes, they have a high rate of failures as compared to fail/ success ratio.
Given below is link and description of one of the few ops by SSG.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Services_Group
The SSG has also conducted many operations in Siachen Glacier against Indian positions. The most noted one took place in 1987 when Pervez Musharraf (then Brigadier) orchestrated an SSG unit assault on Indian posts, but was eventually beaten back.[2] In 1995, SSG troops attempted once again to wrest control of an outpost held by th Sikh battalion, Indian Army, but were repulsed back, suffering 40 casualties.[3]
@KAMI its halarious how you justify MQM and its involvement in 12th May massacre..
@SPIN DOCTOR I never justified MQM, you can’t put them away nor you can ignore them. Its a reality you have to live with and they are moving ahead very fast.
I have been to Karachi, and the way they are working no politcal party can dream of catching them, despite the May 12 fiasco. They are there on the ground with the people, there ministers are accessible, their councillors can be reached at 2:00 am, they are getting things done in record time and as I said nobody has the organization to catch them.
So what you can do? just curse them!
Oh i forgot to mention one more thing, remember the earthquake? they showed that they had the potential of doing a lot of good along with the evil. Depends on which side you choose to tickle.
One more thing will rid the country of all the chaos i.e make sure all the bearded Maulana’s and Muftis have same fate as the Ghazi of Red Mosque.
Only thing holding the country together is Army and should keep control by all means.
At the prsent our country is full of illeterate professionals and are hell bent to destroy it.
Army should give the country what it needs the most, clean drinking water, basic education, and simple health care and infrastucture. Army is the last hope and institution that can deliver these.
Alarming fact is we are heading to become second Afghanistan who are left with Warlords (Politicians) and Poor Peasents. Middleclass has long gone overseas. Same is the trend in Pakistan majority of senisble and educated folks are leaving in truckloads out of country. And all that is being left is to rot.
So wake up folks and save your country and support your Army, as it made from you and has not come from abroad.
@ DOCTOR,
ABOUT SSG!
YOU DONT KNOW ANY THINK ABOUT THEM !
They all are in the world ….lots of countries are taking training from them,
hundreds of them are in ME and doing kings personal GUARDS ,,, they are in UK special gurds they are in Africa , they are in Japan, they are in Alaska,
What do you know about them … you are just FOOL doctor I guess you do operations of Donkeys….
PEACE NOW.
All these pro-Ghazi brothers comments are now beginning to verge towards the ridiculous.
For all those whose heart bleeds for these terrorists, ask yourselves the following:
what about the people who were terrorised
by these self-righteous goons, the ones who
were kidnapped, the ones who had their property
burnt, the video shop owners who had their livelihoods threatened by these self-appointed
guardians of morality and virtue, the ones who had their reputations sullied by unsubstantiated
allegations….
What about them, their families and loved ones? Don’t they have feelings? Don’t they have rights? Who should have delivered justice to them in the face of those who chose to take the law into their own hands? They had every right to expect their government to come to their aid and get rid of this menace which had made their lives miserable.
@wk if we accept dg ispr information 164 ssg ‘commandos’ took part in the operation and 10 died 23 injured against 73 militants.
i know a lot about us special force and can tell you ssg can only be compared with the militants it usually fight against.
Pak Army doesn’t have the guts (and the ability) to fight the likes of India hence they are picking on little kids in a madrasa. Pathetic.
Hamid, Why the heck do you want to fight with India, they have nothing to do with this.
Pro-Taleban commenter’s here are just worried sick that their time has come.
@ WK, reference for the “all over the world” comment, please.
@ Hamid, Bleed for the nation first, then talk of war.
All the anti-Army, anti-Mush voices here are only taking the opportunity to bash him for his support on the global war on Terror.
The operation must go on, on each and every mardarsa turned bootcamp in Pakistan and Afghanistan!
None of these idiots have done a dime worth of good for the country and neither do they have any relationship with Islamabad. Yet we see them issue fatwas, and statements that are as ludicrous as their English.
For “Kill All Terrorists”: Pappu yaar Tang Naa Kar.
Dont say about things for which you don’t have any understanding.
What did i learn from all this ?
No matter what happens, goverment is always gona be wrong in Pakistan :D
Oh and also, according to everyeone, anyone who is pro-goverment is on the goverments payroll.
That’s about it :D
Mass graves? They are being buried in a regular grave in islamabad cuz no one is claiming them. This is not like iraq where bodies were burried in unknown places. Musharraf is doing an excellent job. He gave 2 freakin weeks to these hooligans to give up and sent people for peace talks and we have seen the result. This maulana just wanted to die, period. So he got what he wanted. Logically there should be NO negotiations with terrorists. No negotiations at all, they understand power. Punch them and they will run. Just like in the lal masjid, first day no one was surrendering, the pak army just shot few rounds and you saw about 1000 of them came out. This is they understand. While some people sit in some cozy sofa in the west and spitting on the Pakistan army, while this same army is trying to protect the future of the country from terrorists by sacrificing their lives. Thats how you thank them by spitting on their faces? Shame on you! Whats done is done, we should look towards making the future free from these extremists thugs instead of crying on the past. Dont believe everything you see or hear on geo ajj and others. Their aim is to capture more audiences so they get more ads for their channels. They dont give a damn about the credibility of their reports. As one politician put it, every nakara or useless person in pakistan becomes a press reporter. Now thatb says a lot about their credible reporting. Use your brain people and not emotions.
@Kill All Terrorists!: I agree. Why don’t we start with your terrorist leaders and masters (musharraf, altaf hussain, etc.)?
I am also disappointed to read the govt bashing that has immediately started on this blog as predicted by Kami or Sheepoo (i think) and thought i am no big fan of either the govt or the mullahs, ive got to stay ‘cool headed’ as the situation demands and point out that the blame game doesnt solve anything. Neither side was 100% right or 100% wrong all the time. But one thing the govt did do right was deal with this situation as best as it could. they were given SIX days to give up…to the point of begging and pleading with them but if they had decided to commit suicide then they are responsible for their own actions. Pardoning our own Maulana Ghazi was one matter, but amnesty for the foreigners???!! Regrettably it was the Maulana brothers mistake to give these ppl refuge who were wanted criminals and disowned even by their own organisations for being too extreme. Why, i ask, are proud pakistanis actually commenting that granting amnesty to them would have been acceptable? On this issue, the govt took a stand and rightly so as these are the people coming to hide in our cities and create fasaad.
If, as the tide seems to be turning, there are wide spread protests against the govt by sympathisers or opportunists who want any excuse to bash the govt, then I ask you, what is the alternative?
Before protesting, at least offer the next viable alternative to support your argument. Benazir ??? Nawaz Sharif??? Some MMA Maulana??
Even the most optimistic will have to admit that these alternatives are tried and tested….the former two looted our country to the verge of bankruptcy and the later will lead us down a path similar to Iran or Afghanistan. Are these visions of the future acceptable to the ordinary moderate pakistani who loves their culture,food and traditional music??? Are the ordinary and already decent women of Pakistan really ready to wear a chogha of black from head to toe?
When people talk of seeing the back of Mush, and rising up in protest, do they not realise that our country is in a very fragile position right now with no back up plan. The slightest upheaval will send us down a slippery slope to all out civil war. Not even the over zealous on this blog can cheer over the death of thousands that will result as a consequence.
So, again i repeat, i am no fan of the govt, but unless you have a viable alternative than just vague talk of regime change, this army is all we have got protecting us from the over eager ‘Mother India’ designs of India on our left and the chaos of Afghanistan on our right. And believe me, a civil war will give all the excuses America needs to take over Pakistan to give us ‘democracy’. So I ask all of you again, if you dont like the system, dont just write abusive blogs, come up with a viable solution to strengthen our civil structure so we dont have to depend on the army.
@Mariam : The solution is simple, give the TRUE peoples goverment a chance. Let the democracy work in Pakistan for a while, and keep the army in their barracks doing what they are supoosed to do. More than half the history of this country is shadowed by rule of the general, half of the remaining by the beauracracy. The army generals say what did the political and democractically elected government do in their two tenures. Well they weren’t allowed to work by the interventaion of the top brass of the same army whose generals covet for political power. Now look at the present dictators government. What has it given to the country? War, political unrest? Musharaf is trying to impose his own will, which he requires for his own survival on his people. A democractic government cant do that.
So the “solution” as you ask is is let the polictial government and system , no matter how rotten or crippled, function for a while. It wont’t mature over a couple of years. It might take decades but thats the right way to go. It will not be easy in the start but let it work instead of upsetting the whole political structure by constant poking of nose in matters that are non of the business of the army. The system will mature over a certain period of time, after initial troubled times. If the political government keeps function, we would see true peoples leadership emerge after toils and hard work of a few decades (not a couple of years). Pakistan was created due to constant political struggle of many decades. It was not “won” by a bunch of generals. These generals had no role in creation of Pakistan. People won them out of the hands of British through constant political struggle, and that is exactly what is required once again for Pakistan’s survival.
Checkmate: Problem is to ensure that such system will be allowed to work, here everyone wants to be the “savior” of the country either based on their religious or political views and this creates so much instability.
@Saad: It won’t happen over night or just in a few years. Let it go through. Let it spew up all the filth and garbage, but that’s the part of the evolution process. No single person can be, or should be the savior of the country. However this mind set would be changed over a certain period of time if political government is allowed to function no matter what the price. Pakistan wasn’t conceived in 2.5 years. It took persistant efforts and failures of decades to eventually come to realising a dream in 1940. The movement started way back in 1857. It took over a century. But atleast the track of the struggle was on the right course. At that time if that political movement had been destablized by power brokers, do you think Pakistan would have been born? Here what happens is that military dictators constantly interfere with the political processes and destablize governments. Military, even when out of power, is constantly busy trying to find ways getting into power. They think civilians are stooges, and democratically elected representatives incapable of running the government, just like Musharaf has said time and again. He may be right, but that is none of his business. He should have done his job in the boundaries of constitution, and should have let the political process take its course into maturity, instead of rejecting orders by the people’s government representative and considering himself of some superior entity to make the military machinary a beast that rejects government orders, has a mind of it’s own and is impossible to tame. The military beast needs to be tamed as soon as possible. That’s the biggest threat to Pakistan right now.
btw this blog has been mentioned in the news today by one of its columnists — and in not a very charitable light http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=64031
Yea that was my point, somehow military should be made to realize that interfering in politics is not its job.
@HAMID Add Kazi Hussain Ahmed, Molana Saiul Haque, Liaquat Bllaoch, Fazlul Rehman etc to that list
Local blogs such as ‘Metroblogging: Islamabad’ were not much better. While the website itself provided ongoing, reliable updates on each new twist in the tale and its impact on the residents of surrounding areas, commentary on the origins and implications of the stand-off were limited to the comments section. There, readers and bloggers trying to make sense of the situation also gravitated towards opposing ends of the spectrum. Some decried army action as state terrorism while others argued against “terrorist mullahs” and called for the assassination of the mosque’s clerics. From the article Omar linked here.
First off all, the poor author does not know that this is not a political blog by anyways or means. We report and discuss what happens in our city and politics lies inside the fringe, thus. We are not compelled to comment on the apathetic political scenario in Pakistan, now or ever. However, we DID! And that is where Huma intentionally left out stuff our authors were writing opinions about. Which is quite sad. While we tried our level best to keep the posts updated she found us lacking in some way. How typical.
If she has any questions regarding the issue she can take it up somewhere else. We will not cater to people who come here seeking answers. We already have too many questions of our own. Hence the poll.
Lastly, she made a comment about the comments section. Saying that people in the comments section gravitated to the extremes. Which is very true.
While the blogging world is praising what IMB did in the last week, we have a fellow Pakistani belittling our efforts so unthankfully. ‘Local Blogs,’ I ask what other ‘Local Blog’ does she know that covered the event with such depth and detail?
Here is an interesting angle. Before the lal masjid became news, the Government had launched several campaingns to uphold international copyright piracy laws, which included, among other steps, going after CD shops for violating copyright laws. Raids were conducted on a few CD shops (no doubt the ones who were not ‘cooperative’ with the authorities. I remember several times in Islamabad, CD shop owners did a ‘disappearing’ act and we could not buy any CDs. However, after the lal masjid people started their campaign against CDs (for all together different reasons), the Government, which was previously raiding these shops, now took an altogether different line.
Both were after the illegal CDs for altogether different reasons. And soon again, when under international pressure, when CD shops will be closed for violation of copyright laws, no one will object.
@PHIL I agree with you 100%. When I look back at the comments I posted on MIB in the past week, I see the mood swings which were reflected in my writings, from objectivity to utter nonsense, from anger to bad tasted humour it all came out. Have I any regrets? No.
How could you not expect out pouring of emotions when something so intense is un-reviling in front of eyes, when there is such high drama and so many lives are at stake. In fact the future of the whole nation is at stake. We are not computer programs compiling reports from available data. We are humans.
Yes, some of us have cursed the Mullahs and others have cursed the military, Musharraf, but I have also seen strong arguments from both side of the spectrum, so what else does she want from a blog?
Doctor is seems to be ver informed about every thing including some information which I guess even Army and Govt. are also not aware off, Doctor you should be head of an agency or may be you headed KGB (obviously in your dreams). Stop posting stupid comments from Ajj TV use your tiny brain and two eye. What happen at Lal-Masjid is very very sad for every Pakistani, but for some it a golden opprotunity to use politically like MMA, they got time to attend that meeting in London to organize against Mushraf but did not get courage to stand and act as mediator to resolve the issue and at least present in Pakistan but like so many time is past when ever pakistan needs them they are out side haveing party (and God knows what happen at those parties). How these militant got so much of arm in a place like mosque and launch a fight and kill inocent people in the name of Islam. What govt. did is 200% correct and yes every pakistani is asd on the loss of people. Salut to Pakistan army for their courage and sacrfise for the sake of Pakistan and Islam.
@WK - I agrre with you on SSG, how could Doctor know he didnt even knew about humans he is A ANIMAL DOCTOR !!!!!!!!!
Q1: If the militant had the weapons (which govt says they had) the must’ve attacked the forces cuz they were fighting HAT-AL-MAUT (till death) and there should be more causalities in the forces,
Q2: And if they had weapons, why are the building behind the forces are safe and sound, and not like the walls of the sieged building.
Q3: If they had hand grenades mortars, RPG’s and Hand bombs, why were they making Petrol bombs???? which can do nothing…
govt is a liar, f*** mush!!
and these are the mass graves am talking about.. dug by shovel and multiple bodies being dumped into single large grave…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2007/07/070712_lalmasjid_burial_confusion.shtml
I second you Doctor, let these m****** f****** mqm ppl bark!
@imtiaz i never made any comment about SSG commandos , you dumbos seriously need to use your eyes and brains next time you read any comments…
**explanation**
attacked here means, when they started the OPERATION SILENCE, attacking would be the last resort to balance the death toll, cuz one way or the other, the sieged ppl had to die.
this is 2nd massacre commited by Dictator in almost 2 months, first it was 12th May’s massacre in Karachi in which almost 50 people were murdered by Musharraf’s team mates from MQM, while after almost 2 months now(today was 12th july) another massacre staged by the dictator in which conflicting death toll figure are emerging… DG ISPR saying 75 civilian and 11 Military deaths(total = 86) , DC Islamabad 102 Civilian and 11 Military deaths, while independent media saying that almost 285+ people died in this standoff..
halarious thing is that even govt’s own figures are not macthing, DG ISPR giving different figure while DC Islamabad giving higer figure… so either one or both of them are fooling the people and media..
I make dua to Allah, O Allah if there was even a single more person killed than the numbers given by the Government, then Allah make the people successful who will take revenge and chop off the heads of Musharraf, Eijazul Haq and other colonels and generals who belong to the same mentality and those who support them, Ameen.
So now the responsibility of all this is on Musharraf. What about the Ghazi Bros., they excaped scot free. Free of all responsibility, they were the principals of this Fitna-Institution, the lives of the students were given in their hands by their parents. it was their responsibility to honour their trust. Instead, they used them as bargaining chips and took them with them. Those who wanted to come out did came out, rest wanted shahadat/suicide, they got what they wanted.
Bara Ghazi is still alive why dont somebody grabs his grebaan and ask him,” Are you satisfied now? here is your shariat and congratulations you are responsible for a large consignment to Jannat.”
Where in the world you get a media coverage like this. No western country gives such leverage to media in situations like this. Live coverage to the Molana, free airtime. Media wants to be in the hospital broadcating bodies and injured coming in live, what they want to do create chaos and anarchy?. No, govt allows such live coverage. What we he have is unpresedented.
Musharraf is indeed brave, this would not had been easy but he has the guts to do what he is right, whereas, others have taken the easy option i.e. criticise. He has taken the responsibility of not only his actions but of others who did or did not do what they were supposed to do.
I see now MMA leaders, spewing poison and calling this an atrocity. I am even willing to accept their argument only when even one of them condemns in no uncertain terms the murder innocents by the hand Jihadist bombers, kidnappers, and beheaders who have brought such shame to Islam.
You call Musharaf a Dictator. You have not seen Dictators.
Sorry for the typo’s in my last post
To Doctor, WK and Imtiaz.
I think WK mixed up my mentioning of SSG in my post for “Doctor’s” post.
I know all are wel wishers of Pakistan. And every one has their opinion about the incident which caused the death of lot of Pakistani people( it does not matter what side).
My concern is why it happened?
If we go back to 1979 and start going through the history we can see Pakstan Amry, Saudi money and CIA planning has let to do with what happened at Lal Masjid in 2007.
In every country, army and their intelligence agency has a job to protect its nation and its people from internal and external threats.
Intelligence agencies tries to neutralize the threats before they can acually do any harm to their country. They do a lot of espionage activities out side of their country and promote Sabotage( through extremist elements) to protect their country’s interest. While doing all this they make sure that heir own country remain free and safe of such activities and elements.
In this regard CIA did very well during cold war, they used Saudi Money and Pakistani labor and land to achieve their task.
ISI also did a brilliant job by establishing schools in Pakistan which were giving Guerrilla warfare training , recruiting extremist elements in Pakistan which were coming from all over the world. Religion is a very powerful tool.
But ISI forgot only one thing, instead of weakening its Foe, ISI shook the foundation of its own country.
Cannot blame others if we shoot ourself again and again.
Now history repeats itself.
“Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed.” Mark Twain
May the God give strength to the families of dead
“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” Mohandas Gandhi
@kami
No, we have seen dictators, at least two. One was Zia and other Mush.
If you have seen any other than these, please let us know.
Pls read the remarkable column of Dr. Shahid Masood
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/jul2007-daily/13-07-2007/col3.htm
pls read the another column from following link
http://kashifhafeez.com/mazameen_large.php?path=2007-07-12&img=kh_articles/large/2007-07-12.gif
@KASHIF I have read your article and that of Shahid Masood . Shahids article is much more emotional, whereas, I found yours more objective. No doubt they were innocent, but they were robbed of their innocence by none other than their teachers. Ironically, two of them are still alive. As for the responsibility, for what happened, I think we are all responsible me, you, Shahid Masood, Jayyad Ulema, poiliticians, Awaam and Musharraf. To justify any vigilante action by those brain washed souls is futile. The system has failed them, like the system has failed those poor girls who make a living dancing in Heera Mandi or stage or running Ayaashee ke adday.. Are they not also victims? If you shut down their livelihood, drag them by their heir and kill them, will that not be zulm. The fact is, zulm is every where. Remember thousands of women brutally raped by powerful men and thrown in the lock up under hudood ordinance, they are still alive but are they?
Sanaa Khawan-e-Mashriq ko lao
Unhein ye galyaan, ye koochay dikhaoo
Sana Khawan-e-Taqdees-e-Mashriq Kahan hein?
Victims dragging victims in the street will solve nothing. The culprits will stay alive, as it is the case in Hafsa. Emotional writing can bring a tear in our eye but can also blur our vision. A very strong section of our population has systematically thrown our people into the clutches of jahaalat. Cursing, killing or writing marseiay will not get us any where. If we just can give ilm to our people, uncensored, undoctored, pure and simple ilm. Ilm jo zahnoon ko roshan karey.Is that too much too ask. If we have to fight, cant we fight for this.
Teray Azaar Ka charaa nahein Nashter ke siwa
Aur ye saffaq maseeha meray qabze mein nahein
Is jahan ke kisi zee rooh ke qabze mein nahein
Haan magar teray siwa teray siwa. Teray siwa
@ADNAN the others are Saddam, Marcos, Shah of Iran, Pinochet of Chille and not to mention thousands in history. And they were vicious!! You cannot even compare Mush to Zia-ul-Haque. All the dictators had one thing in common, no freedom, no media and no explanation of their action just pure and simple murder. Whereas, our dictator Mush can be scolded publicly,. To his credit he comes on the same media and takes responsibility for his actions, everybody else is busy dodging responsibility or transferring it or pointing fingers or writing emotional articles. In this regard there is only one Musharraf.
So what has happened, Musharraf has taken it all on his shoulders, but the real culprits as I said earlier are still alive and nobody is asking them what did you do? Why did you sent your students to their deaths and why are you still alive?
@Kami,
Those dictators didn’t give head to their Masters, they acted on their own. But our dictator wants to give head to his master, thats why we have media. Those dictators didn’t want MTV award or try to sell their books at Amazon.com.
The only thing he fears is Media(PERIOD) and he wouldn’t get tired of sucking his Master, all he wants is CNN and FOX praising him day and night.
When you stop preaching Musharraf, get some fresh air and get some life.
@HUNGRY Isee CNN & FOX all the time and I dont see any paises. In fact all the time he is being critisized for not doing enough, making pact with the terrorrists, coverring up for jihaadis and what not. I remember Mush speaking on the UN platform saying that Madrassah’s are the biggest NGO’s and defended their role despite all the pressure. This is how he was re-paid.
Come on, you guys can do better all I see are statements, it seems that nobody can make an argument.
You said that he heads to his masters. Let me tell you when he took power, Pakistan was broke, we could not even pay our monthly dues. We didn’t have one master, the list includes;
1/ Saudia
2/ China - who paid our instalments.
3/ USA ofcourse - we had sanctions.
and whoever who lent us money.
So, my friend beggars cant be choosers, If you get broke and asked even your closest relatives for money, they will start avoiding you or atleast impose their will on you. Its not different with countries.
I am not a great fan of dictatorships but I know what the realities are, I know what wonderful alternatives we have. So I am sticking with the one who is brave.
I am not even gonna comment on “those dictators didnt head to their Masters” sometimes ignorance is a bliss.
@Kami
U are right ignorance is a bliss.
Strong nations with strong people never submit to any Dictator or a force imposed on them.
Well on other hand Weak nations with lazy people are very eager to accept any rule whether forced or imposed without their consent. It saves them the trouble of finding and electing people of their choice. If the elected persons do not perform up to the mark, then they have to kick them out. Then repeat the same process over and over again until they are able to find and elect stable and descent people in the office. This is a never ending loop as it means step by step improvement for the country and its people.
See how tiring is the process and how much work is involved in it.
Rather let the Army, God or any other force( who cares) take care of all the issues and be a sheep in the herd. Baaaaaaaaaaa
Thats just one sheep’s thought.
Regards
Sheep
Long live Musharaf or who ever is next
@Sheep agreed on every point and there is no denying, that the democratic process, however, langri looli should continue. People need to be kicked before they kick someone. We have never been a strong nation in fact we have yet to decide after 60 years, whether we are a Nation or an accident of history.
I am defending Musharraf because I am not the one that offloads everything bad that has happened in Pakistan, army/politics on his shoulders and absolve myself and others of their responsibilities. He might be wrong, stubborn or stupid but he has tried to fix things that he didnt broke and has faced the fire bravely.
I remember a journalist in US who asked him, “Why did you publish your book while in power, people write books after they retire.” To this he replied, “I am not sure that I will live that long, so better write it now.”
I rest my case.
@Kami,
Good comparison, now we know who we should compare MUSH with Saddam, Marcos, Shah of Iran, Pinochet of Chille.
and we shouldn’t compare him with ZIa aur Ayub.
So who is MUSH going to kill now ? Edhi? or Justice Ch.??
@Kami
you said that you are defending Musharaf because you dont want to offload the current happening’s to his shoulders.
Well I can say that you did not establish the Madrassah which wanted to establish state within state.
You did not provide arms and training to the “students” of Madrassah.
You did not provide any financial assistance to that Madrassah to buy weopens.
Then why you should feel responsible for that event.
Army and ISI supplied all the above to every extremist element(religious or political) in Pakistan including Lal Masjid.
The religious extremist are the product of flirt between Pak Army(Mother) and CIA(Father). Saudi Govt acted as financial broker.
After the sepration the kids normally live with their mother.
Have you ever heard Mother killing its own children cause what ever she taught initially to its children was bad and now the kids will not listen to mommy.
I think in this case Mommy is at fault. Mommy needs to stay at home(barrack) and stop flirting specially when kids are getting hurt.
Mommy(Pak army) is making the same mistake again and history will repeat it self.
“What the mother sings the cradle goes all the way down to the coffin.”- Henry Ward Beecher
@SAJID who says army is not hugely responsible for this mess, but it was not Musharraf’s Army, it was Zia-ul-Haques army. The clean-up will be within and without, the likes of Gen. Hameed Gul are still out there to grab power and promote their screwed up ideologies. Remember, if another zealot general manages to get his way, all these MMA’s will flock around him, like they did with Zia-ul-Haque and we will again drift into abyss.
The wounds of Afghan and Kashmir Jehaad are so deep that they simply wont go away. If now, there was a single civilian leader with resolve and character that could stand up to for right and challenge the status quo I would rally behind him/her. I did rally behind some of the present lot and they robbed me.
Lets be patient, have a few elections, let the leadership emerge, till then the Army has to show us that they could mend as well as brake. Like it or not, if you take out the army from the equation, there would be chaos then anything else. Now is the time to keep the boat steady and dont let it roll over.
In my opinion we have come out of this crisis stronger than weaker. Ofcourse people are sad and angry but they also realize what types of threats are in store for us and what types of agenda’s are out there. I would like to see political alignments on left and right and not linguistic and ethnic and people once and for all deciding what type of Pakistan they want by casting there vote. Ofcourse, army would always be there, like its there in Turkey but it will gradually weakened.
@Kami
You said” Like it or not, if you take out the army from the equation, there would be chaos then anything else.”
I am in favor of chaos, then to see army in the equation.
The damage this guy is inflicting is too huge. We will see the results of his damage as we are watching results, in 2007, of damage done by Zia in 80’s.
Regards
@SAJID It seems you will soon be having your wish. Two Division’s have been despatched to Swat, thers has already been a suicide bombing on a convoy killing more than two dozen soldiers and a failed attemp to car bomb Peshawar.
If this continues then there bound to be a face off b/w the millitary and Mullah Fazlullah of Swat. Lets see who will be the hero and who will be the villain.
The golden opportunity for removing army from the equation was lost by Zulfiquar Ali Bhutto. He was the most powerful civillian leader we had and had a firm grip on the millitary. Instead he choosed to be the Martial Law Administrator and gifted us Zia. Nawaz Sharif again had this opportunity when he had Jahangir Karamat as the COAS, a firm believer of army’s non-invlovement in politics. He removed him and appointed Mush and then gifted power to him.
If you have friends like these then who needs enemies. Sometimes I am just plain and simple frustrated…..
You guys are on BBCUrdu.com
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/science/story/2007/07/070715_blog_pta_rza.shtml