Jameya Hafsa’s side of story
Circulating around is this article by Dr. Shahid Masood printed in today’s Jang.
You can read it following this link too ..!
there are times when you can’t just take sides … mind says something else and heart tells an altogether different story …!
Will we ever learn to follow the mid-path?? the path taught by Islam??
I’m very confused … are you??
Praying that Allah keep us on straight path … and a blessed one. And praying for all those Pakistanis we lost in lal masjid finale on 10th july.
u don’t need to doubt this side of story,there wasnt one asma there,there were many in fact.innocence doest need any justification from law or government.
اگر دعائيں یا بد دعائيں واقعی اثر کرتی ہیں تو پھر لال مسجد والوں کو انکی محلے دار آنٹی شمیم کی بد دعا کھا گئي۔
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/urdu/2007/07/post_213.html#commentsanchor
lol..
“innocence doest need any justification from law or government.
if only…:P
This article may be relevant after incidents like lal masjid. It uses Britain as reference but most points apply all over.
http://tinyurl.com/yo9n2v
Muslims: how to win hearts and minds
Sacrifices will have to be made by British Muslims in order to engender trust. Here is an eight-point plan, a statement of intent.
2. We must use a consistent language. There are some Muslims who use one language when addressing other Muslims and another for non-Muslims. I think this is most unacceptable. What we cannot say in public should not be said in the first place. It is one clear language we must use at all times.
3. We must do all our activities openly. Our mosques and centres should be open to all people. We must invite people of all communities to take part in our social and religious activities, especially those that are open to public. This includes inviting non-Muslims in our mosques; allow them to join with us in our prayers, fast with us in the month of Ramadan and adopt a Muslim lifestyle, even if it is only for few hours or days. This will help them experience Islam and see for themselves what we Muslims really do, and what kinds of things we get up to in our mosques and centres.
4. We should only speak about what we know and not fall victims of conspiracy theories. Some Muslims believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy and the London bombing was actually staged by some shadowy secret agents working for some global secret empire. This is too far-fetched and borders on paranoia in view. Let me put it simply, “if you cannot speak the truth it is better for you to stay silent”.
5. We must stand firm for justice even if it means we go against ourselves, our families and friends. Injustice is simply wrong no matter who perpetrates it and anyone who suffers injustice deserves our sympathy and support. We must do everything possible to prevent violence and indiscriminate killing of innocent people, whether it is done by NATO forces in Afghanistan or Palestinians in Israel. Our cause must be uncompromising when it comes to fighting against injustice.
6. We must create a new Islamic intellectual discourse. Muslim scholars in the Muslim world are not always free to express their views and the views that they express are often censored or politically loaded. We must develop a new discourse based on our own realities here in Britain and not rely on importing fatwas that come out of conditions that are not conducive to the current climate.
7. We must end the fatwa dependency culture. Fatwa dependency has crippled the Muslim mind; it has made the Muslims unable to take responsibility for their decisions and has given rise to ill-educated masses. We must develop our own capacity to be able to engage in and take active steps towards an intellectually sound British Muslim community. We have to raise our standard.
8. We must distance ourselves from the emotionally charged angry rhetoric of the Muslim world. Many Muslims are very angry because of the socio-political conditions under which they live, they are victims of many problems, some self-imposed and some externally imposed on them. Their angry rhetoric is also due to the lack of freedom, democratic reform and opportunities for education and economic prosperity. In Britain we are not living under such conditions. Why should we be angry? We certainly feel for them but our response must be rational, measured and proportionate. If we want to help them out of their predicament we must distance ourselves from their anger.
This article tries to explain why Muslim extremists do what they do. I have taken it as humour, I hope others do too.
====================
Most suicide bombers are Muslim
Suicide missions are not always religiously motivated, but according to Oxford University sociologist Diego Gambetta, editor of Making Sense of Suicide Missions, when religion is involved, the attackers are always Muslim. Why? The surprising answer is that Muslim suicide bombing has nothing to do with Islam or the Quran (except for two lines). It has a lot to do with sex, or, in this case, the absence of sex.
What distinguishes Islam from other major religions is that it tolerates polygyny. By allowing some men to monopolize all women and altogether excluding many men from reproductive opportunities, polygyny creates shortages of available women. If 50 percent of men have two wives each, then the other 50 percent don’t get any wives at all.
So polygyny increases competitive pressure on men, especially young men of low status. It therefore increases the likelihood that young men resort to violent means to gain access to mates. By doing so, they have little to lose and much to gain compared with men who already have wives. Across all societies, polygyny makes men violent, increasing crimes such as murder and rape, even after controlling for such obvious factors as economic development, economic inequality, population density, the level of democracy, and political factors in the region.
However, polygyny itself is not a sufficient cause of suicide bombing. Societies in sub-Saharan Africa and the Caribbean are much more polygynous than the Muslim nations in the Middle East and North Africa. And they do have very high levels of violence. Sub-Saharan Africa suffers from a long history of continuous civil wars–but not suicide bombings.
The other key ingredient is the promise of 72 virgins waiting in heaven for any martyr in Islam. The prospect of exclusive access to virgins may not be so appealing to anyone who has even one mate on earth, which strict monogamy virtually guarantees. However, the prospect is quite appealing to anyone who faces the bleak reality on earth of being a complete reproductive loser.
It is the combination of polygyny and the promise of a large harem of virgins in heaven that motivates many young Muslim men to commit suicide bombings. Consistent with this explanation, all studies of suicide bombers indicate that they are significantly younger than not only the Muslim population in general but other (nonsuicidal) members of their own extreme political organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah. And nearly all suicide bombers are single.
Interesting article link; http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20070622-000002.xml
Point 5.
The other key ingredient is the promise of 72 virgins waiting in heaven for any martyr in Islam. The prospect of exclusive access to virgins may not be so appealing to anyone who has even one mate on earth, which strict monogamy virtually guarantees. However, the prospect is quite appealing to anyone who faces the bleak reality on earth of being a complete reproductive loser.
da mullah was high i keep telling u again n again
@KASHIF I have read your article and that of Shahid Masood . Shahids article is much more emotional, whereas, I found yours more objective. No doubt they were innocent, but they were robbed of their innocence by none other than their teachers. Ironically, two of them are still alive. As for the responsibility, for what happened, I think we are all responsible me, you, Shahid Masood, Jayyad Ulema, poiliticians, Awaam and Musharraf. To justify any vigilante action by those brain washed souls is futile. The system has failed them, like the system has failed those poor girls who make a living dancing in Heera Mandi or stage or running Ayaashee ke adday.. Are they not also victims? If you shut down their livelihood, drag them by their heir and kill them, will that not be zulm. The fact is, zulm is every where. Remember thousands of women brutally raped by powerful men and thrown in the lock up under hudood ordinance, they are still alive but are they?
Sanaa Khawan-e-Mashriq ko lao
Unhein ye galyaan, ye koochay dikhaoo
Sana Khawan-e-Taqdees-e-Mashriq Kahan hein?
Victims dragging victims in the street will solve nothing. The culprits will stay alive, as it is the case in Hafsa. Emotional writing can bring a tear in our eye but can also blur our vision. A very strong section of our population has systematically thrown our people into the clutches of jahaalat. Cursing, killing or writing marseiay will not get us any where. If we just can give ilm to our people, uncensored, undoctored, pure and simple ilm. Ilm jo zahnoon ko roshan karey.Is that too much too ask. If we have to fight, cant we fight for this.
Teray Azaar Ka charaa nahein Nashter ke siwa
Aur ye saffaq maseeha meray qabze mein nahein
Is jahan ke kisi zee rooh ke qabze mein nahein
Haan magar teray siwa teray siwa. Teray siwa
Is there an engish translation of Shahid Masood article available?
Very emotional! like it happened to me! i found myself in place of shahid masood! like those innocent sisters are calling me or writing text to me! i am very upset!
This is really unfare with them!
Very emotional! like it happened to me! i found myself in place of shahid masood! like those innocent sisters are calling me or writing text to me! i am very upset!
This is really unfare with them!
Can someone please translate it, a little x(
Very touching and emotional. No one disputes the fact that the innocent lives were lost in the operation and it is sad. Every deadbody had a story to tell and if we need to eliminate the chance of more deadbodies hitting the floor in the future then we need to eliminate the root cause once and for all.
An excellent editorial by DT
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20077\14\story_14-7-2007_pg3_1
It is unfortunate that many Pakistanis, however well meaning, still think that unless a madrassa declares its defiance of the state and mobilises its acolytes as vigilante groups, it is actually making a positive contribution to the task of educating the poor population of Pakistan. The argument is that since the state is unable or unwilling to provide for the poor, the madrassas fill this void and thereby perform a useful educational function.
Yet it is clear to all that a madrassa is not the place where our children can be made ready for the job market. We also recognise the truth, albeit unwillingly, that the proliferation of the mosque in Pakistan has taken place because the madrassa graduate, rejected by the job market, has to build or acquire his own mosque to become a breadwinner. So crucial is the mosque as an adjunct of the madrassa that many “empowered” madrassas of the Deobandi variety have been seizing the Barelvi mosques to “settle” their new graduates. In Karachi, there is a major Deobandi-Barelvi battle over mosques thus grabbed.
The fact is that few scholars have examined the psychology of the madrassa acolyte. Most people simply scrutinise the dars-e-nizami syllabus taught there and find it harmless, even though it is unrelated to the contemporary environment. But one reliable study done by Pakistani scholar Dr Tariq Rehman has revealed that madrassa students have more hardline views on such subjects as non-Muslims and women in Pakistan than Urdu and English medium schools geared to the job market. The extremism of the sermons issued from the mosque on a daily basis reflects the worldview imbibed in the “regular” madrassas.
Pakistan’s moderate scholar of Islam, Mr Javed Ahmad Ghamidi, a member of the Council of Islamic Ideology, says that the induction of the madrassa clergy and students into the Afghan war in the 1980s and the 1990s has empowered them to a point where they can set their own agendas and challenge the state. In an interview with Business Plus TV channel, the girl students of Jamia Hafsa clearly echoed the clerical view of the doctrine of amr (encourage the good) and nahi (oppose the bad) as grounds for vigilante action “because the state doesn’t end activities banned in Islam”. They also said that the Quranic verse la ikrah fi din (no coercion in religion) meant freedom is allowed before Islam is embraced but not afterwards.
The clerical consensus on Lal Masjid was based on a rejection of the state-within-the-state created by the Rashid-Aziz duo, not the “banned activities” that the two were attacking. The tendency to prejudge “activities” without first challenging them at the Federal Shariat Court points to the tendency of the clergy of the “good” madrassas under Wafaqul Madaris Arabiya to forgive the pious trespasses of their acolytes. Vigilante action is rampant in the country. Any incident of pages of the Quran found lying on the ground immediately leads to the burning of public property, something that never happened before the clergy was hugely empowered through jihad.
Its time to scream Eureka
Michael - Sorry Dr Masood’s article is too long to be translated. In the nutshell it is a story of two sisters who were studying at Jamia Hafsa. Dr Masood sort of befriended them during visit of the madrassa a few months back and gave them his mobile number. After the military siege of the madrassa began, he tried to persuade them to leave the premesis b calling on the older girl’s mobile. However, she refused as she was confident that the army would not attach the madrassa, and they had armed guards defending them anyway. In the end, Dr Masood learnt through another call, when the operation was on, that the older girl had been killed. The story laments the loss of their lives.
DEATH be not proud, though some have called thee
Mighty and dreadfull, for, thou art not so,
For, those, whom thou think’st, thou dost overthrow,
Die not, poore death, nor yet canst thou kill me.
From rest and sleepe, which but thy pictures bee,
Much pleasure, then from thee, much more must flow,
And soonest our best men with thee doe goe,
Rest of their bones, and soules deliverie.
Thou art slave to Fate, Chance, kings, and desperate men,
And dost with poyson, warre, and sicknesse dwell,
And poppie, or charmes can make us sleepe as well,
And better then thy stroake; why swell’st thou then;
One short sleepe past, wee wake eternally,
And death shall be no more; death, thou shalt die.
- John Donne
I have a siory to tell too. It’s about a House.
Once open a time there was a house that was peaceful and prosperous. House has a Mother( Pak Army) Father( politicians) and Kids(regular citizens).
Mother and Father always had arguments and fights about who controls the house. Mother was always interested in having affair with wealthy outsider( CIA). So the outsider started interfering with the internal affairs of the house, of course with the Mothers approval.
This made the house into mess.
To make the matter worse Mother decided to take the flirt to next level. Saudi’s acted as financial broker. The result was a NewKid( Extreme). Because of the bad nature of Mother and manipulative outsider Extreme became rebellious.
The flirt resulted in disaster.
After the separation the newkid( Extreme) started living with their mother along with other kids.
When the kid - Extreme started misbehaving and stop listening to his Mother, Mother started beating him. Mother never realized that Extreme’s behavior is the result of her own training.
Now there is war like situation at home and every one is suffering.
History repeats, Mommy has started flirting again.
What do u think, should be done?
What should be the solution?
Do you think so that Mommy should stop flirting or keep on doing what she is doing?
Do you think that Father should try to be Man of the house regardless of the difficulties?
Do you think so that kids should jump in to bring peace and sanity in the house.
Cause in the end it is only kids who are getting hurt.
“What the mother sings the cradle goes all the way down to the coffin.”- Henry Ward Beecher
From a Kid
Why we get intense feelings when we hear the story for jamia hafza people side.and why no emotion storm inside when Musharraf gives us his side of story.simply because truth speaks louder.
Why red alert was given saying that Army men and their families might be at stake of militant reaction. why fear now ? let your kids be cruely killed becuse the ethics army men showed by killing kids and women say for an equal action.There hands are painted with blood and blood of innocent.Was their lives too cheap .For God sake Open your eyes and heart .see the truth muslims killed muslims ,i still donot know why?i donot find a strong cause for killing the innocents.but i guess we will only understand when someone of our families would be treated so.or may be not because we are so dead from inside.
@JayJay - Thank you for the summary. From the reactions here, it must be a thoughtful and well written piece.
On a lighter note…
@Sajid - Ha, very cute… how ’bout if terribly troubled ‘extreme’ just slits his wrists one day and dies… the outsider and mom lose interest in one another after such a traumatic experience… mom and dad rediscover their passion for each other… have a new love child… and the family lives happily ever after in their cozy house :)
A [for] pineApple what kind of Muslim you are? why don’t you keep equality, why do you just listen to Govt, and don’t even try to listen to other opinion? You can’t pass on you comment on someone only by hearing one sided reporting.
@ Michael
It will be sad because the Extreme Kid learned all from his mommy and outsider. So it will be fair if First Mommy changes her habits and becomes good mommy.
Then Mommy and Daddy take time and energy to make sure that extreme kid gets the training and attention it deserves.
As it is mommy’s fault not extreme’s fault to begin with.
@Sajid - At some point as a child matures, the child is no longer a child and is responsible for his or her own actions. No amount of bad upbringing or bad luck can excuse an adults extremely bad behavior.
These analogies only go so far and its easy to be misunderstood. To be clear, I fully recognize innocent lives were lost in the tragedy at Lal Masjid and am saddened by that.
My comments above apply to the truely extreme from that area of Pakistan giving safe haven to their tall Arab guest and his Eqyptian cohort. To lay blame for their actions on the Pakistani army or the CIA is bogus. People are responsible for their own actions.
@michael Army still arms and supports militants in Kashmir… on afghan border these militants are discouraged from infiltrating into Afghanistan coz our american masters are loosing their soldiers, while on Indian border these same militants are armed,facilitated and encouraged to infiltrate into india… Army is very much responsible for this mess..
@SOHAIL: Your comment makes no sense to me !!
Muslims United Against Terrorism; http://www.muat.co.uk/index.asp
i would call this column by Shahid - one side of a (un)complete picture; There’s much more which we don’t know and this is from both sides, from Gov & from the Clergies of Lal Masjid.
What hogwash!! Shahid Masood clearly has no perspective whatsoever. Who the hell died and made the Hafsa brigade the bearer and protector of morality? It is sad to see that Pakistani journalists who have never seem so much freedom, exhibit such dissonance.
@Michael
Agreed that everyone should be responsible for their own actions. Army should do its part and explain to public what it has done in past and what it is doing now.
Not blaming CIA as CIA is an outsider.
Also not in favor of Pakistani killing another Pakistani. Looking for bloodless solution. :)
just watch Dr Shahid’s prog currently on air on GEO… People criticizing the dictator who killed almost 287+ people in cold blood
@DOCTOR I saw it and I know what Shahids agenda is. He himself is a clever ideolog. One day I like to see him presenting a well researched program on the role of Jamaat-e-Islami in Pakistani politics. I know where is he coming from.
As for the peoples opinion, the one, that was most catching was, “Why cant these molvi’s leave us alone, everybody will be for himself in his Qabar. Achha yaa buraa hum upna hisaab khud dein gein. Khuda ke leay ye log hamein hamaray haal pey chor dein aur apni fiqar karein.”
@DOCTOR Yours 287 way off Qazi’s 1000. Whatever the number if one innocent person died whether it be student or fauji, its a tragedy.
Dont insult who died by saying they died in cold blood, all of them died fighting for what they believe and they are now in their respective Jannats.
It saddans me to be sarcastic, but I am glad that people are wiser than these SPIN DOCTORS.
this blog shud be renamed as metroblogging KAFIR abad.
@kami, woh tu u will come to know in duniya , before dying, that reward u gona get for ur bad deeds. Keep calling names to movlis like a “enlightened” person.
People like u, Musharraf and Altaf Hussain will be together at hell.
Those who keep on drinking, keep on doing adultry , keep on killing others and at last, point molvis for all that bad which is happening due to their own mistakes
Off course, hell is also a creation of ALLAH, and ALLAH will take care of it as well.
How would u criticize and kill molvis in the name of Enlightment then????
muhahahaha
@Kami and i think you missed out another commentator on where she said that she is a mqm supporter and was shocked to see her party’s quaid Altaf bai congratulating military over the successful army operation they conducted.. she says that she lost her relative in army operation conducted by Naseer Ullah Baber and extra judicial killing done by him, and how could MQM’s chief support such a army action..
my reply to the poor lady would be that Altaf bai just sheds crocodile’s tears and even when operation was being conducted in dera bugti baluchistan, he half heartedly opposed it and said that his party will part from govt and resign from cabinet, but as expected nothing happened it was just a tactic to blackmail govt and get a better package.. on the other hand Banazir Bhutto says that operation in karachi was her biggest achievement in restoring law and order in the city where bhatakhori ,assassination,kidnapping and other street crimes were quite common and murderer ruled the streets… and if she comes to power i expect that first thing she’ll do will be avenging 12th may’s massacre … real culprit grand terrorist Altaf bai and his thugs are sitting safely in london and innocent karachiites will suffer…
death toll definitely must have been alot higher then that, govt did ordered 1000 kaffans and body caskets after the operation was completed and 287 bodies were kept in just one cold store,while there have been reports of dead bodies kept at other places too.. army would never let the real figure out coz that would expose them and their heinous crime they committed in this massacre..
our army does not learn from past mistakes.. the crimes they committed in east pakistan.. and that damage that was done us back then, dictators just don’t use their brains, they’re just too intoxicated,and power gets to their head and for them military action and brute force is solution to all problems..
A very interesting tradition of Holy Prophet:
“Ali (RA) related that Prophet of Allah (SAW) said ’soon a time will dawn upon mankind when there will be nothing left in Islam but its name only and nothing in Quran but its (written) words only. The mosques will be full (of people) but empty of righteous guidance, their clergy will be the worst creation under the sky, divisive movements (Fitna) will rise from them and return to them‘.”
[Mishkat, Book of Ilm, Al-Fasl III, page 38 and Kanz-al-Ummal page 6 of 43]
@Doctor: I am really proud of you, the way you’re portraying our feelings is just wonderful.
All MQM supporters here, you should be ashamed of your selves as you are the pioneers of terrorism in Pakistan. You started spreading hatred on ethnic bases, you started killing innocent people, you started burning of public property, you started kidnapping of law enforcing personnel, you started illegal occupation of land, you started collecting arms and amunations to induce terror, you started brain washing of young students, you started torcher cells, you started bhatta culture, you started killing of law inforcement agencies, you started voilent protests, you started threatning of witnesses and the list goes on and on..
enough is enough so shut the F up and go to hell where are you trully belong.
@Doctor: I am really proud of you, the way you’re portraying our feelings is just wonderful.
All MQM supporters here, you should be ashamed of your selves as you are the pioneers of terrorism in Pakistan. You started spreading hatred on ethnic bases, you started killing innocent people, you started burning of public property, you started kidnapping of law enforcing personnel, you started illegal occupation of land, you started collecting arms and amunations to induce terror, you started brain washing of young students, you started torcher cells, you started bhatta culture, you started killing of law inforcement agencies, you started voilent protests, you started threatning of witnesses and the list goes on and on..
enough is enough so shut the F up and go to hell where are you trully belong.
I am confused. Can some one tell me where in Pakistan you are not allowed to pray and follow Islam. Does anyone drag you to massage parlors and forces you to dance to music. Does any one force you NOT to pray.
Do these “fanatical” Mullahs posses such great character that we look at them and are like, that person is the most respectable person we know of? This person devotes his time to helping people in need, is humble and is constantly asking for forgiveness.
These people enroll students in with the prospect of excitement and adventure, with a chance to play super heroes with guns and dandas. They are neither educated nor taught to think, they are not made into better people who lead by example but vigilantes who are brainwashed and trained to follow on command of their trainer.
We the rest of the population sit back and watch this happen. Yes because as always we are the silent majority. We keep kidding our selves that “idhar aisay hi hota hai” and its all just a transient drama which will pass. We will never take any action for helping these kids, making sure that their youth is not snatched away from them. Why will we not make sure that these kids are given the same compassionate upbringing as we want for our kids. Why can’t we have a system where madarsssas are the places where great intellectual minds come from, where knowledge is imparted, both religious and worldly.
I guess i’m a dreamer, but right now an extremely shameful dreamer. Ashamed of my people and myself.
@DOCTOR, UNKNOWN & OTHERS sorry to say you disappoint me a lot, the more i talk to you the more I realize how futile it is to make sense. I hate to do this but now you have to listen.
@SELF you have quoted from Mishkat and made a reference to FITNA, all the fitna in the world is limited to Muslims and in particular to our region, whereas, the rest of the world has no time for such nonsense. They are busy making new discoveries and our persuing knowledge, whereas we are in active pursuit of jahaalat.
This incident though unfortunate but is nothing compared to our history. Let me mention some dark portions and remember nothing I am gonna is disputed all Muslim historians approve;
1/ Annihilation of the Tribe of Bani Quraiza, after Ghazwa-e-Khandaq. All meales with pubic hairs i.e. greater than 12 years were rounded up, a ditch was dug in main bazaar of Madina, all were slaughtered. The total figure 600-900 dead., women and children and property distributed. All were un-armed and surrendered un-conditionally. They were the last jews in Madina.
2/ 10,000 muslims killed in the battle b/w Hazrat Ali & Hazrat Aisha. Where did they go heaven or hell?
3/ Kharjees and their attemps to kill both Hazrat Ali and Amir Mawviaya.
….. and many others.
So my friends, nobody is perfect, truth is always bitter but it helps us and the future generations to avoid making the same mistake over and over again.
Open your minds tunnel vision is always limited.
@DOCTORS and others why do you have to mention MQM every time, you right something. Do you guys have an agenda here, the same as Qazi, Shahid and Hameed Gul. I am surprised there wasn’t another call from a PPP worker saying the same thing. then it would have been obvious.
By the way I am a Punjabi by birth, and a person with an ability to distinguish between evil and lesser evil.
Before 10th of July massacre, someone on this blog commented on my comment that I should not compare PM with Hitler and Halakoo, I agree this ba**** is not comparable with them. Check this This army used chemical weapons against children and women , that’s why they are not showing the dead bodies and handing over to people. Don’t forget to see the image of burnt person by White Phasphorous.
If somebody is going to defend even this , I really suspect if he is human.
@PM The responsibility for all this mainly lies with the culprits who are still alive i.e. Mr & Mrs. Brain Washers, grab their garebaan.
As I said earlier dont dishonour the ones who are dead. They were not killed in cold blood, this fate was not forced upon them. They died fighting for what they believed in, whereas, thousands escaped un-hurt including women and the teachers They have joined their families.
Life is all about making choices, if you choose Jannat then may God grant you that.
@PM The responsibility for all this mainly lies with the culprits who are still alive i.e. Mr & Mrs. Brain Washers, grab their garebaan.
As I said earlier dont dishonour the ones who are dead. They were not killed in cold blood, this fate was not forced upon them. They died fighting for what they believed in, whereas, thousands escaped un-hurt including women and the teachers They have joined their families.
Life is all about making choices, if you choose Jannat then may God grant you that.
kami, so you found a way to defend even this, god damn it i am speechless. sorry i am not going to indulge in any talk about this.
@PM this is not the time to spread chaos without any evidence. True govt tried to hide many things but the other side is exaggerating also.
Let me tell you, if the troops have choosen to be ruthless then they wouldnt have lost 10 SSG’s including a commander.
@DOCTOR @IUNKNOWN @SELF and others will await your reply on my July 15, 2007 04:07 AM post.
BREAKING: Zawahiri letters to Lal Masjid found
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article2076013.ece
I hope Qazi is right with his figure of 1000 dead at the Lal Mosque. Lesser is the number of suicidal indoctrinated zombies are in Pakistan, the better for the country.
I think Jamia Binoria and Jamia Haqania should be next as these two are the biggest hatcheries mass-producing walking robots. A Martian has a better chance of adapting himself to the civilized world, than a MADarASSa graduate. Pakistan can never be normal country with so many University of Hate and Intolerance among us. Name a single Mullah who has made any worthwhile contribution to the country?
The only way a MADarASSA graduate mullah can earn a livelihood is by becoming a head priest of a mosque; and we all know unless we have a mosque dedicated for each household, there are not enough mosques around to employ these hordes of ignorance. They therefore build mosques illegally, fight with each other over mosques and what not. The other vocation they can be employed in is by working as mercenaries of ‘jihad”. They have no qualm in biting the hand that fed them for last two decades, now that inflow of money has dried up. You can get whatever fatwa that you want for a “deg of halwa”. They simply prostitute Islam.
These articles give an interesting insight into our collective thinking:
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_22-7-2004_pg3_3
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20066\15\story_15-6-2006_pg3_5
http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=64472
Capital suggestion
Frankensteins
By Dr Farrukh Saleem
President-General Musharraf has put his ninth life in the line of fire to rid Pakistan of her Frankensteins. Musharraf has brought down one, a few hundred more to go. Al Qaeda has urged revolt against Musharraf. Ayman al-Zawahri, Al Qaeda’s number 2, has called for a holy war against Musharraf.
In Pakistan, Frankensteins were harvested by the Zia-Reagan-King Fahd trio, an ISI-CIA-Al Mukhabarat Al A’amah joint project. Since then, we have had Presidents Ghulam Ishaq Khan, Farooq Ahmed Leghari and Mohammed Rafiq Tarar. Since then, we have had prime ministers Mohammad Khan Junejo, Benazir Bhutto, Ghulam Mustafa Jatoi, Nawaz Sharif, Moeen Qureshi and Mir Zafarullah Jamali. No one dared taking on Frankensteins and Frankensteins lived, prospered and multiplied.
President Musharraf’s is the first blow. Apparently, there are 88 Frankensteins in Islamabad alone. Is Musharraf leading a paradigm shift? Is Musharraf redefining the role of religion in our state and society? People blamed Musharraf before Operation Silence for not doing enough and are now blaming him again for what he has done. Mullah Nasreddin, the 13th century Sufi-sage, had the ideal recipe to make people stop talking.
Here’s how the story goes: Mullah Nasreddin and his son went on a journey. Mullah decided to let his son ride the family donkey while he walked. A group of fellow travellers remarked, “Look at the healthy young boy on the donkey! That’s today’s youth. They have no respect for their elders. The son rides while the poor old father walks!” Mullah’s son immediately disembarked and insisted that his father must ride while he walked. A bunch of tea-sippers saw the new scenario and remarked, “Look at that! A young and hearty father rides while his poor, little son strides along.” This time the Mullah had his son jump onto the donkey and sit right behind him. Another group soon came by crying out loud, “Look at the poor donkey! The feeble, little animal has to carry the weight of two people.” The Mullah counselled his son that the best thing for them to do is walk along the donkey so that no one would complain. Soon another group of travellers showed up. “Just look at those two fools. Both the father and the son are walking under the mid-summer hot sun, neither of them riding their own donkey.” Utterly frustrated, Mullah lifted the donkey onto his shoulders and told his son,”Come on, if we don’t do this it will be impossible to make people stop talking.”
Lal Masjid’s battle has ended but the war has just begun. Lal Masjid was all about the politics of jihad. Frankensteins were meant to be instruments of state policy in the promotion of national interest. But, as in Mary Shelley’s novel ‘Frankenstein, or The Modern Prometheus’, Victor Frankenstein’s ‘cursed creation’ woke up, walked out and murdered the creator’s own brother, his best friend and then his wife.
The new war is all about the soul of Pakistan–a war between logic and jihad, between a culture of martyrdom and a culture of reasoning. Our Frankensteins are isolationist, both a military and a political threat. The counter equation must contain the military in-tandem with politics. Their marginalization would have to be both military and political; Pak Army plus mainstream civilian politicians. Military can’t do it alone neither can the politicians–genuine representatives of the people partnering with professional soldiers is where the real solution lies. It’s time for fusion, not fission. Surely, not the time to launch a new struggle within.
The writer is an Islamabad-based freelance columnist. Email: farrukh15@hotmail.com
HEY @JAYJAY What a post. The battle has indeed started. 2 Divisions deployed in Swat. A suicide attack killing more than two dozen soldiers. Culprits - screwed up suicidals led by Mullah Fazlullah. A failed car bombing of Peshawar.
Anyone who supports this mad man must get de-vaccinated because according to him vaccination is un-islamic and those kids who die of illness like polio are shaheed.
If indeed MMA say what they are, they should themselve disarm this guy, this is now the only way to avoid further bloodshed.
I read it. I discussed it all with my friend Kamal.
And I am heart-broken. I am upset because:
+ I believe it is extremely sad when little innocent children a brainwashed and told things that are not entirely accurate.
+ I believe it is extremely sad when little innocent children have to die for the grand mistakes of others
+ I believe it is extremely sad when people *use* innocent children as a bargaining chip to seek their own aims and goals
+ I believe it is extremely sad when people *use* innocent children for their own political shenanigans
+ I believe Quran states: “La Iqraha Fid-deen” — There is no compulsion in religion!
Even a casual reader of Dr. Shahid’s note can easily deduce that these were children from extremely poor backgrounds. They have not been exposed to the ways of the world. They have been brainwashed with one version, one view, one concept. They have been told never to question anything. They were not given true picture. They were never told the reality and horrors of imminent death that they may face. And most importantly THEY WERE NEVER GIVEN THE CHOICE BETWEEN LIFE AND DEATH. It is all treachery.
In each and every disaster, whether tactically small like the Jamia Hafsa, or very large like the Afghan War, the poor and the children pay the highest price. And they are usually the most innocent and most accidental participants.
If I am truly a man of Allah (SWT) and truly a follower of the Prophet (SAW), then instead of trying to be a political hero by using lives of innocent women and children as a bargaining chip, my very first step would be to modify the part of the equation that is in my control. I would force the women and children out of the process, so that their innocent lives are not compromised.
Then adult men should be given a clear cut option if they want to fight my battle or leave out of their own conscience and free will. But clearly that never happened.
We have to understand that in a culture of total and utter obedience and submission, as is the case for women in Madrassah, I simply refuse to believe that if Ghazi had ordered the female students and children out of the seminary, they would have stayed!
Remember: ADVERSITY DOES NOT BUILD CHARACTER, INSTEAD IT ONLY REVEALS IT.
Both brothers, Abdul Aziz and Ghazi had tremendous opportunities to demonstrate their character in the face of adversity. Unfortunately, they showed how shallow theirs really was.
They used the innocence of a religiously brainwashed child, who has not have the opportunity to see the world, as a bargaining chip to secure for purely personal objectives. Theirs was never a goal for the greater good of the humanity.
Great men of Allah (SWT) NEVER stand on the shoulders of women and children and try to negotiate a safe passage for themselves.
Let’s review the facts objectively. Let us control our cynicism.
This debate was NEVER about Islam. It was eventually turned into one purely for socio-political purposes. If you have recorded the very last conversation of Ghazi on GEO-TV, review it and you realize that he is making a political statement against the present regime.
Religion is one of the most potent forces in the planet. It can be used to do tremendous good and misused for severe treachery. In the hands of good men, like Eidhi, it is a force for love, healing, forgiveness, and re-building. In the hands of some others, it is a force to brainwash little children to pursue political aims, it is a tool to perpetuate suicide-bombings against innocent civilians, to cause murder, mayhem, destruction, ethnic and sectarian violence. It can become a tool for hatred and revenge.
We have to learn to separate the core message of the religion from that of the man. People will hide behind religion even when attempting to escape in a burqa, committing a robbery, or killing an innocent. It is all the same to them!
The worst thing is that people who are committing murder of innocent people have absolutely no guilt for their actions, because they have been convinced that it is truly sanctioned and approved by Allah (SWT) [Nauzubillah Min Zaalik]. Since there is no guilt, there is no repentance, there is no recourse. It is always my way or the highway! They always feel completely justified in their actions, no matter how violent.
@OPEE where they have gone astray is the use of the word NIFAAZ. There is so much emphasis on enforcement that much more viable options like practice and propagation by argument have been put aside. I guess leading by example and practicing what you are preaching are more difficult options.
Personally, I will not accept something simply because its being enforced, but if you convince me, thats another matter.
@kami, i am sorry that i didnt get wat u wanted to convey in ur that particular post.
But i can answer that west is making discoveries just becoz they dont force any responsibility on the one which has no liability to do it. Like church teaches chhristianity and hate for islam and in the mean while, scientists keep on doing their scientifical work. No one says that church shud produce scientists. Where as in pakistan, no university teaches islam and Musharraf (Pig
) asks madarasah to produce Engineers. Duh!
U r rite that west doesnt have these FITNA as they have alread passed through this period and christianity has already been torn into pieces.
Now, their target is Islam.
Unfortunately, we never have been taught abt the Deen correctly. We have been sent to the colleges and universties to get better education but never have been sent to madarsah to get best of ISlam.
Therefore, as we dont have any knowledge of madarsah and the ppl there, when we hear the propagandas abt them, we beleive in them.
And moreover, why the terms like extermism and fundamentalism and englightment have been raised after 9/11??? why not during the rule of nawaz sharif and Baynazir or in pig’s rule but before 9/11??? Why the madarasah have been blamed to produce terrorists after 9/11???
Just becuase that pig has to retain his govt. and do any thing to please Bush and company???
And these are the thing which are produced as a cover to kill all those who havent done any thing.
If they have done any thing, where are the proofs??
If u have some, show me. Becarefull not to point to the propagandas.
@JayJay - Wow, the old articles you provided are really something… brutally honest biting facts… Razi rocks! When a non-muslim westerner tries to deliver a message like that, its too easily dismissed as hateful or against Islam.
@Opee - nice post
@ iunknown
Actually the problem is that people like to blame on madrassas however they know nothing about ‘em couple of my friends studied there and now they are doing MBAs and LLbs ans other things but society and people don’t accept them easily and they are isolated ( jaao maulana sahib apni masjid chalao yeh parhai wagera aap ka bass ki baat nahin)
there are few problems
1- nobody announces scholarships for madrassas students however pepole require that the madrassa should produce genuine brands and it is worth to mention people who are sending their kids in madraasa belong to poor families (almost 60% are from poor families) schools are not in their areas nobody wants to go in their areas to teach …health and medical issues are there and so on
2- if we talk about that madrassa should produce real brand so they can be the part of our labour force to progress our country … ok fine very valid thing but univerisities colleges and schools keya produce karrahe hai? nothing but a clerical staffs people require every thing from molvis kah sab gunah se woh bachay, koi crime woh na kare, sab se qualified woh ho, what about other people what will they do? every responsibility is only for a cleric from social to religion?
health sector main jaao tou people have to give and pay 10-20 lacs as a bribery to get admission…. how can they afford and pay…..
MBA karne jaao tou people have to have 2-3 lacs ..aik poor family kaisay pay kare gi
same thing in other siuations….
hum main se kitnay hain kah if they think kah madrassa is producing nothing tou wahan kah 2-5 students ko (when they are free) ko hum educate kareen gay hum main se kitnay hain jo yeh responsibilty lete hain kah we they are passed out from madraasa we will enroll them in any college
@ iunknown
Actually the problem is that people like to blame on madrassas however they know nothing about ‘em couple of my friends studied there and now they are doing MBAs and LLbs ans other things but society and people don’t accept them easily and they are isolated ( jaao maulana sahib apni masjid chalao yeh parhai wagera aap ka bass ki baat nahin)
there are few problems
1- nobody announces scholarships for madrassas students however pepole require that the madrassa should produce genuine brands and it is worth to mention people who are sending their kids in madraasa belong to poor families (almost 60% are from poor families) schools are not in their areas nobody wants to go in their areas to teach …health and medical issues are there and so on
2- if we talk about that madrassa should produce real brand so they can be the part of our labour force to progress our country … ok fine very valid thing but univerisities colleges and schools keya produce karrahe hai? nothing but a clerical staffs people require every thing from molvis kah sab gunah se woh bachay, koi crime woh na kare, sab se qualified woh ho, what about other people what will they do? every responsibility is only for a cleric from social to religion?
health sector main jaao tou people have to give and pay 10-20 lacs as a bribery to get admission…. how can they afford and pay…..
MBA karne jaao tou people have to have 2-3 lacs ..aik poor family kaisay pay kare gi
same thing in other siuations….
hum main se kitnay hain kah if they think kah madrassa is producing nothing tou wahan kah 2-5 students ko (when they are free) ko hum educate kareen gay hum main se kitnay hain jo yeh responsibilty lete hain kah when they are passed out from madraasa we will enroll them in any college
sorry for lots of typos and i posted twice magar is main mera qasoor nahin hai i was afraid kah light na chali jaye and i hope so kah is loadshedding main kisi “Molvi” ka haath bhi nahin hoga
@IUnknown.QueryInterface(CLSID_Reasonable, &hopefully_not_void);
The ‘west’ isnt targetting Islam. The reasonable amoung us distinquish between those insaniacs (who happen to claim to be acting in the name of Islam) trying to harm our societies from Islam as a whole. We have a problem with the insaniacs (for lack of a better word).
Also, regarding the pursuit of science in the west. Actually, in the US the Catholic Church operates a great many schools including universities. The curriculum is largely secular, with an additional ‘religious studies’ class that would not be found in the public school system.
I attended a Catholic high school. The Christian brothers running the school did not teach me to hate Islam (or how to make a bomb), but they did introduce me to computer science :)
return !propaganda;
@Sameer - Its fun to read your writings, how you weave back and forth between English and Pakistani(?) is like overhearing bits of a conversation in a noisy place.
Somebody posted a link to an article about the madrassa education system in Pakistan and Bangledesh a few days ago. Very informative…
http://www.apcss.org/Publications/Edited%20Volumes/ReligiousRadicalism/PagesfromReligiousRadicalismandSecurityinSouthAsiach5.pdf
In the US, the Catholic schools, and all ‘private’ schools, have to be accredited by the state and conform to requirements set out by the state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_School
Michael, thanks for promptly quelling the propaganda of the ignorant. They base their arguments on hearsay, conspiracy theories and half-facts.
Michael.SendMessage(”
OK, but who told u that madarsah are weapon making schools?? Again propaganda. Have uy ever got ne proof? beside some of preplanned news for attacks on madarsah?
U r rite abt churches. But do u know all but most of the crusades were initiated by Fathers in churches?
Now, Wat if some one attacks on u and u havent done ne thing offensive?? U are surelly gona kick him, hang him and bang him.
Why afghanistan was attacked??? so as Iraq?? dont tell me the false story of WMDs and Taliban propaganda. Ppl in afghanistan these days are still referring to taliban courts ( so called Shria courts) for their cases. In their rule, the women , who used to do the jobs, were asked to quit those jobs, and instead get payed while sitting at home. Isnt that very very respectful for women????
“, U_were_driven_by_propaganda=true);
Sameer , u r some wat rite but now the trend has changed a lot. In IT industry, almost 60% of the ppl are having beared and they try to follow islam.
Those ppl who dont accept such molvi ppl are truely racists. They have to actually accept such kinda molvis when they will not be able to find ne one else around :) AS molvis are pretty talented, no end.
Now a days there are a lot of big madarsah like DArul uloom karachi, banori town etc where kids of rich ppl study.
Ur last para. has given us a really good idea. I think we shud all follow it
sorry i didnt read jayjay’s comments.
JayJay why dont u change ur religion from islam to some thing else.
Islam doesnt need ppl like u who always and all the time doing propaganda and letting others to laugh at us.
Actually Unknown Jayjay doesn’t need to change his religion. It’s not people like him/her who are causing all the death and destruction, is it? Maybe it is you who should change?
And when it comes to who people laugh at. Well frankly, it’s the oh-so-holy rage spewing fanatics who are the joke. In fact, if weren’t so terribly tragic it would be absolutely hilarious.
If you really want a good laugh, scroll up and re-read your own contributions. Truly pricelessly inept. Have you ever thought of doing comedy as a full time job?
Humour is the fanatics’ Achilles heel, they lack any sense of fun. They can’t take being ridiculed, it drives them mad and then they reveal their true selves. But they are so very easy to make fun of, I just can’t resist the temptation.
REally Sean?? its the mulla who is responsible for all the destruction???
I think u and some other ppl are suffering from “Mulla Fobia”. All the time blaming at mulla even u dont know wat r u saying and to whom u r pointing.
Better get cured. if not, then please stop spreading shit here.
Unknown, I didn’t use the word “Mulla” (sic), I used the word “fanatic”. It is you who have equated the two. A very interesting admission don’t you think.
Hopefully you are wrong and not all Mullahs are fanatics. Only the ones you support.
@IUNKNOWN you didnt answere the questions I raised in my July 15, 2007 04:07 AM posting, instead you started a new debate. But I appreciate the fact that you tried to presented some arguments, however naive, instead of making statements.
I agree to you on the fact that that great majority of Madressahs are passive and are doing their job the best way they know. They keep themslves out of the politics and concentrate on education. Few even offer “O” and “A” levels.
However, this does not mean that we shy away from the fact there are quite a few, who in the past couple of decades have astrayed. They are well funded, well supported and are nothing but training grounds for building a particular mindset. They have now matured into organizations that are Facist in nature.
Imam Abu Hanifa once said, ” When I give my interpretation on a issue (Masala) my students have different opinion about it and they dont necesssarily agree”. This is progressive thinking, whereas, “I am right you are wrong and you will have to accept what I say is Facism”. Such institutions that promote this mentality are not Madressahs, they are FITNA.
Now to your points about chistianity being torn to pieces and they are now targeting Islam, seggregation of ilm into religous ilm and dunyawi ilm etc….There is a beautiful word for this in English that is “paranoia”. I have travelled in the west and in the east and believe me nobody has time to hatch such conspiracies except for some Neo-Cons in Bush’s camp, whose days are also numbered. My friends in downtown Toronto go to church for saying Jumma prayers and there are countless examples like that where churches have given there space to muslims to say prayers.
The torch of ilm (knowledge) has been transferred to one civilization to another despite wars, carnage, priests and popes. Egyptions to Greeks, Greeks to Arabs and back to Europe. Also to mention contributions by Indian and Chinese.
So when Arabs embarked on this journey they setup Madressahs where all the knowledge from the newly conquered lands was assimilated along with Fiqh and history writing. They did a wonderful job and set the guidelines for how a modern educational institution should be designed and built. The modern day universities are a mere reflection of the work they did, where everything (including religion) is taught uncensored and undoctored. For this a lot of Muslim scholars like the founder of modern medicine Bu Ali Sina have to run for their lives, because he was declared Kafir by some Sarkaari Aalim. On the other side people like Coppernicus and Galileo were declared Kafirs by their Molvi’s. If these so-called priests had their way the world would still be flat not round.
So question is why would we deliberately like to throw away what we started. Its a right of every child to get basic education like language, grammer, maths, science, sirf-o-naho and when the child matures he should have the option to persue knowledge in the field of his choosing. Not like now when poor kids are deprived of this fundamental right.
So my friend we are just paranoid and lost, nobody is stopping us from correcting ourselves and start contributing to human development, whether it be through Madressah or School, we have to show the world that we can also carry the torch.
To add to the above: There is a huge difference in carrying the torch and using it to set a fire and burn the whole house down, it seems right now we are actively persuing the destructive use.
@KAmi, would u like to name some of the fanatic madarsah??
Regarding ur point abt Imam Abu Hanifa (RHA), that progressive thinking is still going on other wise there would not have been things in islam regarding digital pics , videos etc etc. I am right and ur wrong thinking has been deliberately developed by some fanatics to breakk muslims apart.
BUT wat is wrong in shria must be opposed by every means as we shud act according to Islam rather than turn islam according to our own needs or our Nafs.
U must have read that hadith in which its mentioned that stop the evil with hand ,then tongue and if u cant do any thing, think of it as evil, and thats the lowest level of imaan.
most of all of the ppl in west are ignorant of wat has been happening in the whole world. they only come to know when any event like 9/11 occurs.
There is a jewish lobby behind US govt. controlling the policies of US and directing the whole world.
We can still lead the world infact we have made some achivements but our govt. is so bzzy in killing muslims that it doesnt have time to look at these things.
Obviously, we are all saddened and aggrieved by the sad loss of life of any innocent lives, the brave shaheeds of our security forces, and even the misguided terrorists and extremists.
Dr. Shahid Masood has lost all his credibility by writing this self-projecting, emotionally charged and exploitative article. There is complete lack of objectivity and reason. Here is how:
1. By under-stating the blatant acts of incitement, treason, and violence committed by the extremists and the so-called ‘Talibat’, he has tainted everything he has written. The article starts by painting the serious acts of kidnapping, arson, and threats of suicide attacks as mere ’samjhana bujhana’ by these ‘bachchiyan’.
2. He only has the honour and respect for his favorite talibat in his mind when writing the article. What about the honor and dignity of the women who were kidnapped and made to confess forcefully in front of the whole world? Do we even know if they were guilty of anything. Will the honor of women be now decided in front of the world media at gunpoints of these pious ‘talibat’.?
3. His whole article seems to imply the government is to blame for the deaths of these two innocent girls. What about the fanatics who held them as bargaining chips for more than six months. What about their parents who should have taken them home?
4. Most importantly: I hope he writes an equally touching article on two other little girls: the little daughters of Col. Haroon Islam shaheed. They are today without a father. At least the ‘talibat’ of Jamia Hafsa had a choice - they could leave or they could continue to defy. What about Col. Haroon Islam shaheed’s little daughters? their father was snatched away from their without them even knowing or understanding why. His blood lies on the hands of the terrorist Abdur Rasheed, Abdul Aziz, and Umme Hassaan.
5. Finally, the article is full of self-projections and advertisements of Dr. Shahid’s piety. He makes sure we all know that gets up for Fajr (there was no need to inject this in the article), that he holds the maulana in high regard, and that he tried his best to broker a deal.
By presenting a very one-sided picture and dramatizing the story Dr. Shahid is feeding the fanatic frenzy and the growing Ghazi legacy. As a senior journalist of the country he should know better and act more responsibly.
@observant: Haroon islam wasa MURDAAR not shaheed.
Its totally his fault as he attacked masjid and madarsah.
His wife and children are breaing his fathers own mistake rather than any thing else.
I think u r from Musharraf and Co. and having mulla fobia.
Go and pray 5 times a day, inshALLAH afaqa hoga
@Observant you’re talking about honor and dignity of famous prostitute of Islamabad, Aunty Shamim?
according to PML Q’s Sardar Nasrullah Darashek , “if the famous Aunty Shamim published her client list then wives of almost 200+ members of ruling PML Q and MQM will file for divorce, and coz we all don’t want that to happen so PM should intervene..” he said in cabinet meeting and then Shaukat inquired about Aunty’s whereabouts and every one was looking at each other totally clueless.. very next day issue of Shuakat Aziz and Condoleeza Rice affair cropped up…
The response from D0CT0R and IUNKNOWN is symbolic of the sick mindset. These people think that Islam is their property and they are God’s favorites.
D0CTOR: Yes, for your knowledge every human has respect and dignity. Putting a burqa on does not make you more honorable or dignified than another woman. And those dishonoring ANY woman in front of media and the world are not worthy of being called a Muslim. But you and your favorite fanatics believe that any body who does not think or look like you (like the alleged prostitutes, the non-Deobandis, the Hazaras, the Shias, the non-salafis, the non-Muslims, Christians, Jews, and Hindus etc.) they are not worthy of human treatment and are legitimate targets for killings, bombings, slaughter, and humiliation. Our holy prophet (SAW) and our beautiful religion does NOT teach this. This is a creation of these fanatics.
IUNKNOWN: Haroon Islam Shaheed embraced shahadat honorably and with dignity - unlike the terrorists and extremists who held innocent children and women as hostages and human shield and one of those cowards tried to escape in a burqa while preaching fighting till the end to simple minds like you who are easily fooled by them. (Do you know the last point on which the whole deal was being negotiated to call off the whole operation: Ghazi’s insistence on HIMSELF being let go - so the whole fight was for his OWN self… forget about Shariat and mosque-demolition and anti-vice campaign etc.)
Also, don’t make the assumption you are the only one praying 5 times a day (if you are). There are many many right minded Muslims Alhamduillah who pray 5 times a day and still believe the fanatics are wrong and responsible for all of this.
InshaAllah the operation in Waziristan and NWFP will be launched and these terrorists will be wiped out completely. That will be good for Islam and good for Pakistan. InshaAllah. May Allah guide you to true Islam.
Prostitutes are known for their skimpy attire, but Kenya’s coastal port of Mombasa is witnessing a controversial fashion makeover.
The twilight ladies, as the city’s residents refer to the sex workers, have traded their revealing outfits for the more austere buibui - a loose, floor-length gown and head covering favoured by Muslim women.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/6291100.stm
Unknown says his government are bizy (sic) killing Muslims. Actually you may have noticed. 1, His government are Muslims and 2, Muslims being busy killing other Muslims isn’t particularly unusual these days.
Haven’t you been reading the news from your own country Unknown? Lots of Muslim’s killing Muslims going on (But that’s the kind of Islam Unknown likes, isn’t it?) Same as Iraq, Lebanon, Gaza. Sudan, Somalia etc, etc and etc. World media is dominated by Muslims killing other Muslims for, usually being the wrong kind of Muslims, with depressingly daily regularity. What do you think you look like from outside? A great civilisation?
Please, feel free, do carry on slaughtering each other if that’s what you really want. At least It gives us Westerners (and Thais, Philipinos, Serbs Israelis, Indians, Russians, Darfuris etc etc) a bit of a rest (the recent cowardly and pathetically amateur attempt to kill girls in a disco in my home town, London, notwithstanding). So if you guys really want to kill each other, What motive would we have to want to do anything but encourage you, eh? Answer me that..
Hey but don’t worry. There’s still your best friends the Chinese. They’ll make sure everything works out just fine for you, won’t they?
He can not give those girls names. How convinient. Were they working in a brothel that he can not give their names.
This is the same guy who swears on TV that there was not even one jew killed in WTC.
in 2011, don’t forget to watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzEHcJBVNGU similar movie for pervez musharraf and chemical tariq. americans don’t tolerate these crimes even if they are committed in there name.
Interesting point:
10 جولائی سےاب تک بہت سی تبدیلیاں رونما ہوئی ہیں۔لڑائی کی صفیں بندھ گئی ہیں۔ایک طرف مذہبی انتہا پسند سمجھتے ہیں کہ لال مسجد کارروائی پر بھرپور ردِعمل دینے میں ناکام رہے تو اُن کی پسپائی سمندر میں جا کر ختم ہوگی۔دوسری طرف فوج کا خود کو پیشہ ور سپاہی سمجھنے والا دھڑا خیال کرتا ہے کہ اگر ریاستی حاکمیت اور فوجی قوت پر چاند ماری کا موزوں جواب نہ دیا گیا تو داخلی اور خارجی محاذوں پر بقا دشوار ہوجائے گی۔
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/miscellaneous/story/2007/07/070715_wajahat_attacks_rza.shtml
@IUNKNOWN I agree there is no Madressah teaching fanaticism. Our northern areas are littered with training camps who provide millitary training and offer some religous courses too and call theselves this Madrassah or that Madrassah. Mullah Fazluullah of Swat rides on a horse and travels from village collecting money for his training camps and there are others in Waziristan and FATA.
My dear, who says by using digital technology and video, that you have adopted progressive thinking. Is making a video of beheading an innocent hostage and broadcasting it using modern technology such as internet, indicates that you are a progressive thinker. Come on you can do better than that.
As for your views about ipmosition of shariat, I dont how can I convince you otherwise, so I give up.However, I will suggest some traveling, book reading and meeting some real scholars with different views then your mentors.
I absolutely agree with you on one count. Muslims have and are making an impact in the present day world, but the tragedy is we dont even know who they are. I will list three current examples;
1/ Mohammed Yunus from Bengladesh - Nobel Prize winner, founder of the Gramine Bank for the poor. He has revolutionized the whole concept of Banking. For his bio go to;
http://www.grameen-info.org/
2/ Akhtar Hameed Khan from Pakistan. Founder of Orangi Pilot Project and microcredt for the poor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhtar_Hameed_Khan
3/ Tasneem Ahmed Siddiqui from Pakistan. Gave the world “Khuda ki Basti” a model for how to provide housing for the poor.
http://www.un.org.pk/undp/sgp/green-pioneers/chap-18.htm
Here are my heroes, two of them my country men. Their pioneering work is being copied around the world. But are they your heroes. Never mind, go ahead and follow some crazy zealot with blood on his hands.
IUNKNOWN: You have again displayed you highly piety-imbibed very low level of tolerance by suggesting that I should leave Islam merely because I don’t agree with your narrow and rigid viewpoint. I don’t need your license or permission from any Mullah for that matter regarding my personal and private faith. Keep prostituting Islam and then bemoan the “loss of image” for Islam. With people like you and Mullah Rasheed among the faithful, who needs an enemy?
MUSLIMS KILLING MUSLIMS
IUNKNOWN laments the killing of Muslims at the hands of a Muslim government. I don’t think any sensible person would identify a terrorist or a criminal by his religion and would be ready to pardon his crimes for his personal piety. Operation Sunrise was only meant to make this city and country safer for its Muslim citizens by eliminating highly armed and trained terrorists, who were not willing to surrender to the government despite several opportunities offered to them. What will you call kidnapping of Muslim citizens from their homes, occupation of public property, setting fire to government buildings, piling illegal weapons in a mosque, making children hostages and human shields, etc? You would have more credibility had you unconditionally condemned the killings of Muslims soldiers of Pakistan by the Talibanic terrorists in NWFP and the tribal areas.
What is your viewpoint on the killing of over 200,000 fellow Muslims by the Shariaee government of Sudan during the last few years? Over 2 millions of these Muslims have to flee their homes, with thousand of women raped, by the forces of the Islamic government and its allies Janjaweed militia. The only reason for this genocide is that these Muslims are black and non-Arab. What do you think of massacres committed by the highly pious Taliban in Afghanistan killing thousands of fellow Muslims in Mazar-e-Sharif and Kabul during the late 1990s?
Come on @SCEAN Be easy on the guy, I am trying to engage him.
DOCTOR: Thank you for quoting Dareshak. It reminds me of another mullah, Maulana Sandwich, as Sami-ul-Haq of Jamia Haqania, the alma matar of the Taliban, was called by the newspapers when he was caught by Islamabad Police at a brothel in F-10 as few years back. “Sandwich” explains the devout maulana’s preferred sexual positions as explained by Madam Tahira of the head of the brothel during her interviews. On another note Sami the Sandwich is also known for marrying a 16-year old girl every other year to keep his private life spiced up.
“Maulana Fazlur Rehman wears robes of golden thread and was dubbed “Maulana Diesel” after allegations were made?though never proven?that he was involved in a fuel scam. Maulana Samiul Haq earned the nickname “Sandwich Sammy” after being photographed (presumably by Pakistani intelligence officers) in an inventive position with several bedmates. ”
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,361788,00.html?iid=chix-sphere
These two gentlemen run and control more madrassas in Pakistan than anyone else.
from today’s news
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20077\16\story_16-7-2007_pg7_23
Well done Observant, you got convincing power.
@JAYJAY you are on the roll!! Wow
No doubt its a true story, and its painfull that they killed hundreds of innocent people in Lal Masjid. I think not as a muslim but as a human being no one will appreciate the Pakistani Government.
No doubt its a true story, and its painfull that they killed hundreds of innocent people in Lal Masjid. I think not as a muslim but as a human being no one will appreciate the Pakistani Government.
@observant:
>>(Do you know the last point on which the whole >>deal was being negotiated to call off the whole >>operation: Ghazi’s insistence on HIMSELF being >>let go - so the whole fight was for his OWN >>self… forget about Shariat and mosque->>demolition and anti-vice campaign etc.)
Go and get a life. U dont know the reality or u dont want to know the reality. ARG (RHA) agreed on every thing but the PIG changed the contract and said we will sue on u. Before that, the agreement was done on the transfer of ARG to his home safe and sound. There were some other things as well which u SHUD read and then talk to me.
@Sean: Look who is talking. The problem is that media hightlights muslims as any thing. In west, daily there is rape of dozen women. I will give u exact analysis laters . Infact, after every few seconds, there is a rape and murder. There is a lot more to say but i know u r wise enough :D
@Jayjay: if u dont know any thing then please shut up. Dont spread shit abt islam. I am not sfaying that u shud agreee with me. U need to grow up.
As far as sudan is concerned, i dont have much knowledge abt that. I will read abt that and tell u.
@Kami, u took me wrong here
>>My dear, who says by using digital technology >>and video, that you have adopted progressive >>thinking. Is making a video of beheading an >>innocent hostage and broadcasting it using >>modern technology such as internet, indicates >>that you are a progressive thinker. Come on >>you can do better than that.
Reread my post again.
dont u think in palestine, kashmire, chechenia, bosnia, afghanistan we need armed muslims for the resistance. Who is gona take part in that? Ppl like us??? who spend whole day infront of PC doing useless arguments. If some ppl are preparing for such things, why dont we appreciate them? (dont relate this thing widh suicidal bombings in pakistan as RAW and other enemies may use this oppertunity as well which is creted by that pig , after operation)
Dont worry, i have plans for having a round teh world trip later on :)
I have met some gr8 scholars of the time ALHUMDULLILAH, and im pretty much content with my self. Would u suggest some name of gr8 scholars? may be i cud arrange the visit to them
from today’s news
Musharraf ’suffers from messiah complex
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20077\16\story_16-7-2007_pg7_11
p.s. every one knows that hamid karzai is more venomous then indians..
http://www.darsequran.com/articles/english/are_maulvis.php
http://www.darsequran.com/articles/english/extremists.php
http://www.darsequran.com/articles/english/crime.php
http://www.darsequran.com/articles/urdu/art_htmls/fashisht.php