Jameya Hafsa’s side of story
Circulating around is this article by Dr. Shahid Masood printed in today’s Jang.
You can read it following this link too ..!
there are times when you can’t just take sides … mind says something else and heart tells an altogether different story …!
Will we ever learn to follow the mid-path?? the path taught by Islam??
I’m very confused … are you??
Praying that Allah keep us on straight path … and a blessed one. And praying for all those Pakistanis we lost in lal masjid finale on 10th july.
u don’t need to doubt this side of story,there wasnt one asma there,there were many in fact.innocence doest need any justification from law or government.
اگر دعائيں یا بد دعائيں واقعی اثر کرتی ہیں تو پھر لال مسجد والوں کو انکی محلے دار آنٹی شمیم کی بد دعا کھا گئي۔
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/urdu/2007/07/post_213.html#commentsanchor
lol..
“innocence doest need any justification from law or government.
if only…:P
This article may be relevant after incidents like lal masjid. It uses Britain as reference but most points apply all over.
http://tinyurl.com/yo9n2v
Muslims: how to win hearts and minds
Sacrifices will have to be made by British Muslims in order to engender trust. Here is an eight-point plan, a statement of intent.
2. We must use a consistent language. There are some Muslims who use one language when addressing other Muslims and another for non-Muslims. I think this is most unacceptable. What we cannot say in public should not be said in the first place. It is one clear language we must use at all times.
3. We must do all our activities openly. Our mosques and centres should be open to all people. We must invite people of all communities to take part in our social and religious activities, especially those that are open to public. This includes inviting non-Muslims in our mosques; allow them to join with us in our prayers, fast with us in the month of Ramadan and adopt a Muslim lifestyle, even if it is only for few hours or days. This will help them experience Islam and see for themselves what we Muslims really do, and what kinds of things we get up to in our mosques and centres.
4. We should only speak about what we know and not fall victims of conspiracy theories. Some Muslims believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy and the London bombing was actually staged by some shadowy secret agents working for some global secret empire. This is too far-fetched and borders on paranoia in view. Let me put it simply, “if you cannot speak the truth it is better for you to stay silent”.
5. We must stand firm for justice even if it means we go against ourselves, our families and friends. Injustice is simply wrong no matter who perpetrates it and anyone who suffers injustice deserves our sympathy and support. We must do everything possible to prevent violence and indiscriminate killing of innocent people, whether it is done by NATO forces in Afghanistan or Palestinians in Israel. Our cause must be uncompromising when it comes to fighting against injustice.
6. We must create a new Islamic intellectual discourse. Muslim scholars in the Muslim world are not always free to express their views and the views that they express are often censored or politically loaded. We must develop a new discourse based on our own realities here in Britain and not rely on importing fatwas that come out of conditions that are not conducive to the current climate.
7. We must end the fatwa dependency culture. Fatwa dependency has crippled the Muslim mind; it has made the Muslims unable to take responsibility for their decisions and has given rise to ill-educated masses. We must develop our own capacity to be able to engage in and take active steps towards an intellectually sound British Muslim community. We have to raise our standard.
8. We must distance ourselves from the emotionally charged angry rhetoric of the Muslim world. Many Muslims are very angry because of the socio-political conditions under which they live, they are victims of many problems, some self-imposed and some externally imposed on them. Their angry rhetoric is also due to the lack of freedom, democratic reform and opportunities for education and economic prosperity. In Britain we are not living under such conditions. Why should we be angry? We certainly feel for them but our response must be rational, measured and proportionate. If we want to help them out of their predicament we must distance ourselves from their anger.
This article tries to explain why Muslim extremists do what they do. I have taken it as humour, I hope others do too.
====================
Most suicide bombers are Muslim
Suicide missions are not always religiously motivated, but according to Oxford University sociologist Diego Gambetta, editor of Making Sense of Suicide Missions, when religion is involved, the attackers are always Muslim. Why? The surprising answer is that Muslim suicide bombing has nothing to do with Islam or the Quran (except for two lines). It has a lot to do with sex, or, in this case, the absence of sex.
What distinguishes Islam from other major religions is that it tolerates polygyny. By allowing some men to monopolize all women and altogether excluding many men from reproductive opportunities, polygyny creates shortages of available women. If 50 percent of men have two wives each, then the other 50 percent don’t get any wives at all.
So polygyny increases competitive pressure on men, especially young men of low status. It therefore increases the likelihood that young men resort to violent means to gain access to mates. By doing so, they have little to lose and much to gain compared with men who already have wives. Across all societies, polygyny makes men violent, increasing crimes such as murder and rape, even after controlling for such obvious factors as economic development, economic inequality, population density, the level of democracy, and political factors in the region.
However, polygyny itself is not a sufficient cause of suicide bombing. Societies in sub-Saharan Africa and the Caribbean are much more polygynous than the Muslim nations in the Middle East and North Africa. And they do have very high levels of violence. Sub-Saharan Africa suffers from a long history of continuous civil wars–but not suicide bombings.
The other key ingredient is the promise of 72 virgins waiting in heaven for any martyr in Islam. The prospect of exclusive access to virgins may not be so appealing to anyone who has even one mate on earth, which strict monogamy virtually guarantees. However, the prospect is quite appealing to anyone who faces the bleak reality on earth of being a complete reproductive loser.
It is the combination of polygyny and the promise of a large harem of virgins in heaven that motivates many young Muslim men to commit suicide bombings. Consistent with this explanation, all studies of suicide bombers indicate that they are significantly younger than not only the Muslim population in general but other (nonsuicidal) members of their own extreme political organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah. And nearly all suicide bombers are single.
Interesting article link; http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20070622-000002.xml
Point 5.
The other key ingredient is the promise of 72 virgins waiting in heaven for any martyr in Islam. The prospect of exclusive access to virgins may not be so appealing to anyone who has even one mate on earth, which strict monogamy virtually guarantees. However, the prospect is quite appealing to anyone who faces the bleak reality on earth of being a complete reproductive loser.
da mullah was high i keep telling u again n again
@KASHIF I have read your article and that of Shahid Masood . Shahids article is much more emotional, whereas, I found yours more objective. No doubt they were innocent, but they were robbed of their innocence by none other than their teachers. Ironically, two of them are still alive. As for the responsibility, for what happened, I think we are all responsible me, you, Shahid Masood, Jayyad Ulema, poiliticians, Awaam and Musharraf. To justify any vigilante action by those brain washed souls is futile. The system has failed them, like the system has failed those poor girls who make a living dancing in Heera Mandi or stage or running Ayaashee ke adday.. Are they not also victims? If you shut down their livelihood, drag them by their heir and kill them, will that not be zulm. The fact is, zulm is every where. Remember thousands of women brutally raped by powerful men and thrown in the lock up under hudood ordinance, they are still alive but are they?
Sanaa Khawan-e-Mashriq ko lao
Unhein ye galyaan, ye koochay dikhaoo
Sana Khawan-e-Taqdees-e-Mashriq Kahan hein?
Victims dragging victims in the street will solve nothing. The culprits will stay alive, as it is the case in Hafsa. Emotional writing can bring a tear in our eye but can also blur our vision. A very strong section of our population has systematically thrown our people into the clutches of jahaalat. Cursing, killing or writing marseiay will not get us any where. If we just can give ilm to our people, uncensored, undoctored, pure and simple ilm. Ilm jo zahnoon ko roshan karey.Is that too much too ask. If we have to fight, cant we fight for this.
Teray Azaar Ka charaa nahein Nashter ke siwa
Aur ye saffaq maseeha meray qabze mein nahein
Is jahan ke kisi zee rooh ke qabze mein nahein
Haan magar teray siwa teray siwa. Teray siwa
Is there an engish translation of Shahid Masood article available?
Very emotional! like it happened to me! i found myself in place of shahid masood! like those innocent sisters are calling me or writing text to me! i am very upset!
This is really unfare with them!
Very emotional! like it happened to me! i found myself in place of shahid masood! like those innocent sisters are calling me or writing text to me! i am very upset!
This is really unfare with them!
Can someone please translate it, a little x(
Very touching and emotional. No one disputes the fact that the innocent lives were lost in the operation and it is sad. Every deadbody had a story to tell and if we need to eliminate the chance of more deadbodies hitting the floor in the future then we need to eliminate the root cause once and for all.
An excellent editorial by DT
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20077\14\story_14-7-2007_pg3_1
It is unfortunate that many Pakistanis, however well meaning, still think that unless a madrassa declares its defiance of the state and mobilises its acolytes as vigilante groups, it is actually making a positive contribution to the task of educating the poor population of Pakistan. The argument is that since the state is unable or unwilling to provide for the poor, the madrassas fill this void and thereby perform a useful educational function.
Yet it is clear to all that a madrassa is not the place where our children can be made ready for the job market. We also recognise the truth, albeit unwillingly, that the proliferation of the mosque in Pakistan has taken place because the madrassa graduate, rejected by the job market, has to build or acquire his own mosque to become a breadwinner. So crucial is the mosque as an adjunct of the madrassa that many “empowered” madrassas of the Deobandi variety have been seizing the Barelvi mosques to “settle” their new graduates. In Karachi, there is a major Deobandi-Barelvi battle over mosques thus grabbed.
The fact is that few scholars have examined the psychology of the madrassa acolyte. Most people simply scrutinise the dars-e-nizami syllabus taught there and find it harmless, even though it is unrelated to the contemporary environment. But one reliable study done by Pakistani scholar Dr Tariq Rehman has revealed that madrassa students have more hardline views on such subjects as non-Muslims and women in Pakistan than Urdu and English medium schools geared to the job market. The extremism of the sermons issued from the mosque on a daily basis reflects the worldview imbibed in the “regular” madrassas.
Pakistan’s moderate scholar of Islam, Mr Javed Ahmad Ghamidi, a member of the Council of Islamic Ideology, says that the induction of the madrassa clergy and students into the Afghan war in the 1980s and the 1990s has empowered them to a point where they can set their own agendas and challenge the state. In an interview with Business Plus TV channel, the girl students of Jamia Hafsa clearly echoed the clerical view of the doctrine of amr (encourage the good) and nahi (oppose the bad) as grounds for vigilante action “because the state doesn’t end activities banned in Islam”. They also said that the Quranic verse la ikrah fi din (no coercion in religion) meant freedom is allowed before Islam is embraced but not afterwards.
The clerical consensus on Lal Masjid was based on a rejection of the state-within-the-state created by the Rashid-Aziz duo, not the “banned activities” that the two were attacking. The tendency to prejudge “activities” without first challenging them at the Federal Shariat Court points to the tendency of the clergy of the “good” madrassas under Wafaqul Madaris Arabiya to forgive the pious trespasses of their acolytes. Vigilante action is rampant in the country. Any incident of pages of the Quran found lying on the ground immediately leads to the burning of public property, something that never happened before the clergy was hugely empowered through jihad.
Its time to scream Eureka
Michael – Sorry Dr Masood’s article is too long to be translated. In the nutshell it is a story of two sisters who were studying at Jamia Hafsa. Dr Masood sort of befriended them during visit of the madrassa a few months back and gave them his mobile number. After the military siege of the madrassa began, he tried to persuade them to leave the premesis b calling on the older girl’s mobile. However, she refused as she was confident that the army would not attach the madrassa, and they had armed guards defending them anyway. In the end, Dr Masood learnt through another call, when the operation was on, that the older girl had been killed. The story laments the loss of their lives.
DEATH be not proud, though some have called thee
Mighty and dreadfull, for, thou art not so,
For, those, whom thou think’st, thou dost overthrow,
Die not, poore death, nor yet canst thou kill me.
From rest and sleepe, which but thy pictures bee,
Much pleasure, then from thee, much more must flow,
And soonest our best men with thee doe goe,
Rest of their bones, and soules deliverie.
Thou art slave to Fate, Chance, kings, and desperate men,
And dost with poyson, warre, and sicknesse dwell,
And poppie, or charmes can make us sleepe as well,
And better then thy stroake; why swell’st thou then;
One short sleepe past, wee wake eternally,
And death shall be no more; death, thou shalt die.
- John Donne
I have a siory to tell too. It’s about a House.
Once open a time there was a house that was peaceful and prosperous. House has a Mother( Pak Army) Father( politicians) and Kids(regular citizens).
Mother and Father always had arguments and fights about who controls the house. Mother was always interested in having affair with wealthy outsider( CIA). So the outsider started interfering with the internal affairs of the house, of course with the Mothers approval.
This made the house into mess.
To make the matter worse Mother decided to take the flirt to next level. Saudi’s acted as financial broker. The result was a NewKid( Extreme). Because of the bad nature of Mother and manipulative outsider Extreme became rebellious.
The flirt resulted in disaster.
After the separation the newkid( Extreme) started living with their mother along with other kids.
When the kid – Extreme started misbehaving and stop listening to his Mother, Mother started beating him. Mother never realized that Extreme’s behavior is the result of her own training.
Now there is war like situation at home and every one is suffering.
History repeats, Mommy has started flirting again.
What do u think, should be done?
What should be the solution?
Do you think so that Mommy should stop flirting or keep on doing what she is doing?
Do you think that Father should try to be Man of the house regardless of the difficulties?
Do you think so that kids should jump in to bring peace and sanity in the house.
Cause in the end it is only kids who are getting hurt.
“What the mother sings the cradle goes all the way down to the coffin.”- Henry Ward Beecher
From a Kid
Why we get intense feelings when we hear the story for jamia hafza people side.and why no emotion storm inside when Musharraf gives us his side of story.simply because truth speaks louder.
Why red alert was given saying that Army men and their families might be at stake of militant reaction. why fear now ? let your kids be cruely killed becuse the ethics army men showed by killing kids and women say for an equal action.There hands are painted with blood and blood of innocent.Was their lives too cheap .For God sake Open your eyes and heart .see the truth muslims killed muslims ,i still donot know why?i donot find a strong cause for killing the innocents.but i guess we will only understand when someone of our families would be treated so.or may be not because we are so dead from inside.
@JayJay – Thank you for the summary. From the reactions here, it must be a thoughtful and well written piece.
On a lighter note…
@Sajid – Ha, very cute… how ’bout if terribly troubled ‘extreme’ just slits his wrists one day and dies… the outsider and mom lose interest in one another after such a traumatic experience… mom and dad rediscover their passion for each other… have a new love child… and the family lives happily ever after in their cozy house :)
A [for] pineApple what kind of Muslim you are? why don’t you keep equality, why do you just listen to Govt, and don’t even try to listen to other opinion? You can’t pass on you comment on someone only by hearing one sided reporting.
@ Michael
It will be sad because the Extreme Kid learned all from his mommy and outsider. So it will be fair if First Mommy changes her habits and becomes good mommy.
Then Mommy and Daddy take time and energy to make sure that extreme kid gets the training and attention it deserves.
As it is mommy’s fault not extreme’s fault to begin with.
@Sajid – At some point as a child matures, the child is no longer a child and is responsible for his or her own actions. No amount of bad upbringing or bad luck can excuse an adults extremely bad behavior.
These analogies only go so far and its easy to be misunderstood. To be clear, I fully recognize innocent lives were lost in the tragedy at Lal Masjid and am saddened by that.
My comments above apply to the truely extreme from that area of Pakistan giving safe haven to their tall Arab guest and his Eqyptian cohort. To lay blame for their actions on the Pakistani army or the CIA is bogus. People are responsible for their own actions.
@michael Army still arms and supports militants in Kashmir… on afghan border these militants are discouraged from infiltrating into Afghanistan coz our american masters are loosing their soldiers, while on Indian border these same militants are armed,facilitated and encouraged to infiltrate into india… Army is very much responsible for this mess..
@SOHAIL: Your comment makes no sense to me !!
Muslims United Against Terrorism; http://www.muat.co.uk/index.asp
i would call this column by Shahid – one side of a (un)complete picture; There’s much more which we don’t know and this is from both sides, from Gov & from the Clergies of Lal Masjid.
What hogwash!! Shahid Masood clearly has no perspective whatsoever. Who the hell died and made the Hafsa brigade the bearer and protector of morality? It is sad to see that Pakistani journalists who have never seem so much freedom, exhibit such dissonance.
@Michael
Agreed that everyone should be responsible for their own actions. Army should do its part and explain to public what it has done in past and what it is doing now.
Not blaming CIA as CIA is an outsider.
Also not in favor of Pakistani killing another Pakistani. Looking for bloodless solution. :)
just watch Dr Shahid’s prog currently on air on GEO… People criticizing the dictator who killed almost 287+ people in cold blood
@DOCTOR I saw it and I know what Shahids agenda is. He himself is a clever ideolog. One day I like to see him presenting a well researched program on the role of Jamaat-e-Islami in Pakistani politics. I know where is he coming from.
As for the peoples opinion, the one, that was most catching was, “Why cant these molvi’s leave us alone, everybody will be for himself in his Qabar. Achha yaa buraa hum upna hisaab khud dein gein. Khuda ke leay ye log hamein hamaray haal pey chor dein aur apni fiqar karein.”
@DOCTOR Yours 287 way off Qazi’s 1000. Whatever the number if one innocent person died whether it be student or fauji, its a tragedy.
Dont insult who died by saying they died in cold blood, all of them died fighting for what they believe and they are now in their respective Jannats.
It saddans me to be sarcastic, but I am glad that people are wiser than these SPIN DOCTORS.
this blog shud be renamed as metroblogging KAFIR abad.
@kami, woh tu u will come to know in duniya , before dying, that reward u gona get for ur bad deeds. Keep calling names to movlis like a “enlightened” person.
People like u, Musharraf and Altaf Hussain will be together at hell.
Those who keep on drinking, keep on doing adultry , keep on killing others and at last, point molvis for all that bad which is happening due to their own mistakes
Off course, hell is also a creation of ALLAH, and ALLAH will take care of it as well.
How would u criticize and kill molvis in the name of Enlightment then????
muhahahaha
@Kami and i think you missed out another commentator on where she said that she is a mqm supporter and was shocked to see her party’s quaid Altaf bai congratulating military over the successful army operation they conducted.. she says that she lost her relative in army operation conducted by Naseer Ullah Baber and extra judicial killing done by him, and how could MQM’s chief support such a army action..
my reply to the poor lady would be that Altaf bai just sheds crocodile’s tears and even when operation was being conducted in dera bugti baluchistan, he half heartedly opposed it and said that his party will part from govt and resign from cabinet, but as expected nothing happened it was just a tactic to blackmail govt and get a better package.. on the other hand Banazir Bhutto says that operation in karachi was her biggest achievement in restoring law and order in the city where bhatakhori ,assassination,kidnapping and other street crimes were quite common and murderer ruled the streets… and if she comes to power i expect that first thing she’ll do will be avenging 12th may’s massacre … real culprit grand terrorist Altaf bai and his thugs are sitting safely in london and innocent karachiites will suffer…
death toll definitely must have been alot higher then that, govt did ordered 1000 kaffans and body caskets after the operation was completed and 287 bodies were kept in just one cold store,while there have been reports of dead bodies kept at other places too.. army would never let the real figure out coz that would expose them and their heinous crime they committed in this massacre..
our army does not learn from past mistakes.. the crimes they committed in east pakistan.. and that damage that was done us back then, dictators just don’t use their brains, they’re just too intoxicated,and power gets to their head and for them military action and brute force is solution to all problems..
A very interesting tradition of Holy Prophet:
“Ali (RA) related that Prophet of Allah (SAW) said ’soon a time will dawn upon mankind when there will be nothing left in Islam but its name only and nothing in Quran but its (written) words only. The mosques will be full (of people) but empty of righteous guidance, their clergy will be the worst creation under the sky, divisive movements (Fitna) will rise from them and return to them‘.”
[Mishkat, Book of Ilm, Al-Fasl III, page 38 and Kanz-al-Ummal page 6 of 43]
@Doctor: I am really proud of you, the way you’re portraying our feelings is just wonderful.
All MQM supporters here, you should be ashamed of your selves as you are the pioneers of terrorism in Pakistan. You started spreading hatred on ethnic bases, you started killing innocent people, you started burning of public property, you started kidnapping of law enforcing personnel, you started illegal occupation of land, you started collecting arms and amunations to induce terror, you started brain washing of young students, you started torcher cells, you started bhatta culture, you started killing of law inforcement agencies, you started voilent protests, you started threatning of witnesses and the list goes on and on..
enough is enough so shut the F up and go to hell where are you trully belong.
@Doctor: I am really proud of you, the way you’re portraying our feelings is just wonderful.
All MQM supporters here, you should be ashamed of your selves as you are the pioneers of terrorism in Pakistan. You started spreading hatred on ethnic bases, you started killing innocent people, you started burning of public property, you started kidnapping of law enforcing personnel, you started illegal occupation of land, you started collecting arms and amunations to induce terror, you started brain washing of young students, you started torcher cells, you started bhatta culture, you started killing of law inforcement agencies, you started voilent protests, you started threatning of witnesses and the list goes on and on..
enough is enough so shut the F up and go to hell where are you trully belong.
I am confused. Can some one tell me where in Pakistan you are not allowed to pray and follow Islam. Does anyone drag you to massage parlors and forces you to dance to music. Does any one force you NOT to pray.
Do these “fanatical” Mullahs posses such great character that we look at them and are like, that person is the most respectable person we know of? This person devotes his time to helping people in need, is humble and is constantly asking for forgiveness.
These people enroll students in with the prospect of excitement and adventure, with a chance to play super heroes with guns and dandas. They are neither educated nor taught to think, they are not made into better people who lead by example but vigilantes who are brainwashed and trained to follow on command of their trainer.
We the rest of the population sit back and watch this happen. Yes because as always we are the silent majority. We keep kidding our selves that “idhar aisay hi hota hai” and its all just a transient drama which will pass. We will never take any action for helping these kids, making sure that their youth is not snatched away from them. Why will we not make sure that these kids are given the same compassionate upbringing as we want for our kids. Why can’t we have a system where madarsssas are the places where great intellectual minds come from, where knowledge is imparted, both religious and worldly.
I guess i’m a dreamer, but right now an extremely shameful dreamer. Ashamed of my people and myself.
@DOCTOR, UNKNOWN & OTHERS sorry to say you disappoint me a lot, the more i talk to you the more I realize how futile it is to make sense. I hate to do this but now you have to listen.
@SELF you have quoted from Mishkat and made a reference to FITNA, all the fitna in the world is limited to Muslims and in particular to our region, whereas, the rest of the world has no time for such nonsense. They are busy making new discoveries and our persuing knowledge, whereas we are in active pursuit of jahaalat.
This incident though unfortunate but is nothing compared to our history. Let me mention some dark portions and remember nothing I am gonna is disputed all Muslim historians approve;
1/ Annihilation of the Tribe of Bani Quraiza, after Ghazwa-e-Khandaq. All meales with pubic hairs i.e. greater than 12 years were rounded up, a ditch was dug in main bazaar of Madina, all were slaughtered. The total figure 600-900 dead., women and children and property distributed. All were un-armed and surrendered un-conditionally. They were the last jews in Madina.
2/ 10,000 muslims killed in the battle b/w Hazrat Ali & Hazrat Aisha. Where did they go heaven or hell?
3/ Kharjees and their attemps to kill both Hazrat Ali and Amir Mawviaya.
….. and many others.
So my friends, nobody is perfect, truth is always bitter but it helps us and the future generations to avoid making the same mistake over and over again.
Open your minds tunnel vision is always limited.
@DOCTORS and others why do you have to mention MQM every time, you right something. Do you guys have an agenda here, the same as Qazi, Shahid and Hameed Gul. I am surprised there wasn’t another call from a PPP worker saying the same thing. then it would have been obvious.
By the way I am a Punjabi by birth, and a person with an ability to distinguish between evil and lesser evil.
Before 10th of July massacre, someone on this blog commented on my comment that I should not compare PM with Hitler and Halakoo, I agree this ba**** is not comparable with them. Check this This army used chemical weapons against children and women , that’s why they are not showing the dead bodies and handing over to people. Don’t forget to see the image of burnt person by White Phasphorous.
If somebody is going to defend even this , I really suspect if he is human.
@PM The responsibility for all this mainly lies with the culprits who are still alive i.e. Mr & Mrs. Brain Washers, grab their garebaan.
As I said earlier dont dishonour the ones who are dead. They were not killed in cold blood, this fate was not forced upon them. They died fighting for what they believed in, whereas, thousands escaped un-hurt including women and the teachers They have joined their families.
Life is all about making choices, if you choose Jannat then may God grant you that.
@PM The responsibility for all this mainly lies with the culprits who are still alive i.e. Mr & Mrs. Brain Washers, grab their garebaan.
As I said earlier dont dishonour the ones who are dead. They were not killed in cold blood, this fate was not forced upon them. They died fighting for what they believed in, whereas, thousands escaped un-hurt including women and the teachers They have joined their families.
Life is all about making choices, if you choose Jannat then may God grant you that.
kami, so you found a way to defend even this, god damn it i am speechless. sorry i am not going to indulge in any talk about this.
@PM this is not the time to spread chaos without any evidence. True govt tried to hide many things but the other side is exaggerating also.
Let me tell you, if the troops have choosen to be ruthless then they wouldnt have lost 10 SSG’s including a commander.
@DOCTOR @IUNKNOWN @SELF and others will await your reply on my July 15, 2007 04:07 AM post.
BREAKING: Zawahiri letters to Lal Masjid found
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article2076013.ece
I hope Qazi is right with his figure of 1000 dead at the Lal Mosque. Lesser is the number of suicidal indoctrinated zombies are in Pakistan, the better for the country.
I think Jamia Binoria and Jamia Haqania should be next as these two are the biggest hatcheries mass-producing walking robots. A Martian has a better chance of adapting himself to the civilized world, than a MADarASSa graduate. Pakistan can never be normal country with so many University of Hate and Intolerance among us. Name a single Mullah who has made any worthwhile contribution to the country?
The only way a MADarASSA graduate mullah can earn a livelihood is by becoming a head priest of a mosque; and we all know unless we have a mosque dedicated for each household, there are not enough mosques around to employ these hordes of ignorance. They therefore build mosques illegally, fight with each other over mosques and what not. The other vocation they can be employed in is by working as mercenaries of ‘jihad”. They have no qualm in biting the hand that fed them for last two decades, now that inflow of money has dried up. You can get whatever fatwa that you want for a “deg of halwa”. They simply prostitute Islam.
These articles give an interesting insight into our collective thinking:
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_22-7-2004_pg3_3
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20066\15\story_15-6-2006_pg3_5
http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=64472
Capital suggestion
Frankensteins
By Dr Farrukh Saleem
President-General Musharraf has put his ninth life in the line of fire to rid Pakistan of her Frankensteins. Musharraf has brought down one, a few hundred more to go. Al Qaeda has urged revolt against Musharraf. Ayman al-Zawahri, Al Qaeda’s number 2, has called for a holy war against Musharraf.
In Pakistan, Frankensteins were harvested by the Zia-Reagan-King Fahd trio, an ISI-CIA-Al Mukhabarat Al A’amah joint project. Since then, we have had Presidents Ghulam Ishaq Khan, Farooq Ahmed Leghari and Mohammed Rafiq Tarar. Since then, we have had prime ministers Mohammad Khan Junejo, Benazir Bhutto, Ghulam Mustafa Jatoi, Nawaz Sharif, Moeen Qureshi and Mir Zafarullah Jamali. No one dared taking on Frankensteins and Frankensteins lived, prospered and multiplied.
President Musharraf’s is the first blow. Apparently, there are 88 Frankensteins in Islamabad alone. Is Musharraf leading a paradigm shift? Is Musharraf redefining the role of religion in our state and society? People blamed Musharraf before Operation Silence for not doing enough and are now blaming him again for what he has done. Mullah Nasreddin, the 13th century Sufi-sage, had the ideal recipe to make people stop talking.
Here’s how the story goes: Mullah Nasreddin and his son went on a journey. Mullah decided to let his son ride the family donkey while he walked. A group of fellow travellers remarked, “Look at the healthy young boy on the donkey! That’s today’s youth. They have no respect for their elders. The son rides while the poor old father walks!” Mullah’s son immediately disembarked and insisted that his father must ride while he walked. A bunch of tea-sippers saw the new scenario and remarked, “Look at that! A young and hearty father rides while his poor, little son strides along.” This time the Mullah had his son jump onto the donkey and sit right behind him. Another group soon came by crying out loud, “Look at the poor donkey! The feeble, little animal has to carry the weight of two people.” The Mullah counselled his son that the best thing for them to do is walk along the donkey so that no one would complain. Soon another group of travellers showed up. “Just look at those two fools. Both the father and the son are walking under the mid-summer hot sun, neither of them riding their own donkey.” Utterly frustrated, Mullah lifted the donkey onto his shoulders and told his son,”Come on, if we don’t do this it will be impossible to make people stop talking.”
Lal Masjid’s battle has ended but the war has just begun. Lal Masjid was all about the politics of jihad. Frankensteins were meant to be instruments of state policy in the promotion of national interest. But, as in Mary Shelley’s novel ‘Frankenstein, or The Modern Prometheus’, Victor Frankenstein’s ‘cursed creation’ woke up, walked out and murdered the creator’s own brother, his best friend and then his wife.
The new war is all about the soul of Pakistan–a war between logic and jihad, between a culture of martyrdom and a culture of reasoning. Our Frankensteins are isolationist, both a military and a political threat. The counter equation must contain the military in-tandem with politics. Their marginalization would have to be both military and political; Pak Army plus mainstream civilian politicians. Military can’t do it alone neither can the politicians–genuine representatives of the people partnering with professional soldiers is where the real solution lies. It’s time for fusion, not fission. Surely, not the time to launch a new struggle within.
The writer is an Islamabad-based freelance columnist. Email: farrukh15@hotmail.com
HEY @JAYJAY What a post. The battle has indeed started. 2 Divisions deployed in Swat. A suicide attack killing more than two dozen soldiers. Culprits – screwed up suicidals led by Mullah Fazlullah. A failed car bombing of Peshawar.
Anyone who supports this mad man must get de-vaccinated because according to him vaccination is un-islamic and those kids who die of illness like polio are shaheed.
If indeed MMA say what they are, they should themselve disarm this guy, this is now the only way to avoid further bloodshed.
I read it. I discussed it all with my friend Kamal.
And I am heart-broken. I am upset because:
+ I believe it is extremely sad when little innocent children a brainwashed and told things that are not entirely accurate.
+ I believe it is extremely sad when little innocent children have to die for the grand mistakes of others
+ I believe it is extremely sad when people *use* innocent children as a bargaining chip to seek their own aims and goals
+ I believe it is extremely sad when people *use* innocent children for their own political shenanigans
+ I believe Quran states: “La Iqraha Fid-deen” — There is no compulsion in religion!
Even a casual reader of Dr. Shahid’s note can easily deduce that these were children from extremely poor backgrounds. They have not been exposed to the ways of the world. They have been brainwashed with one version, one view, one concept. They have been told never to question anything. They were not given true picture. They were never told the reality and horrors of imminent death that they may face. And most importantly THEY WERE NEVER GIVEN THE CHOICE BETWEEN LIFE AND DEATH. It is all treachery.
In each and every disaster, whether tactically small like the Jamia Hafsa, or very large like the Afghan War, the poor and the children pay the highest price. And they are usually the most innocent and most accidental participants.
If I am truly a man of Allah (SWT) and truly a follower of the Prophet (SAW), then instead of trying to be a political hero by using lives of innocent women and children as a bargaining chip, my very first step would be to modify the part of the equation that is in my control. I would force the women and children out of the process, so that their innocent lives are not compromised.
Then adult men should be given a clear cut option if they want to fight my battle or leave out of their own conscience and free will. But clearly that never happened.
We have to understand that in a culture of total and utter obedience and submission, as is the case for women in Madrassah, I simply refuse to believe that if Ghazi had ordered the female students and children out of the seminary, they would have stayed!
Remember: ADVERSITY DOES NOT BUILD CHARACTER, INSTEAD IT ONLY REVEALS IT.
Both brothers, Abdul Aziz and Ghazi had tremendous opportunities to demonstrate their character in the face of adversity. Unfortunately, they showed how shallow theirs really was.
They used the innocence of a religiously brainwashed child, who has not have the opportunity to see the world, as a bargaining chip to secure for purely personal objectives. Theirs was never a goal for the greater good of the humanity.
Great men of Allah (SWT) NEVER stand on the shoulders of women and children and try to negotiate a safe passage for themselves.
Let’s review the facts objectively. Let us control our cynicism.
This debate was NEVER about Islam. It was eventually turned into one purely for socio-political purposes. If you have recorded the very last conversation of Ghazi on GEO-TV, review it and you realize that he is making a political statement against the present regime.
Religion is one of the most potent forces in the planet. It can be used to do tremendous good and misused for severe treachery. In the hands of good men, like Eidhi, it is a force for love, healing, forgiveness, and re-building. In the hands of some others, it is a force to brainwash little children to pursue political aims, it is a tool to perpetuate suicide-bombings against innocent civilians, to cause murder, mayhem, destruction, ethnic and sectarian violence. It can become a tool for hatred and revenge.
We have to learn to separate the core message of the religion from that of the man. People will hide behind religion even when attempting to escape in a burqa, committing a robbery, or killing an innocent. It is all the same to them!
The worst thing is that people who are committing murder of innocent people have absolutely no guilt for their actions, because they have been convinced that it is truly sanctioned and approved by Allah (SWT) [Nauzubillah Min Zaalik]. Since there is no guilt, there is no repentance, there is no recourse. It is always my way or the highway! They always feel completely justified in their actions, no matter how violent.
@OPEE where they have gone astray is the use of the word NIFAAZ. There is so much emphasis on enforcement that much more viable options like practice and propagation by argument have been put aside. I guess leading by example and practicing what you are preaching are more difficult options.
Personally, I will not accept something simply because its being enforced, but if you convince me, thats another matter.
@kami, i am sorry that i didnt get wat u wanted to convey in ur that particular post.
But i can answer that west is making discoveries just becoz they dont force any responsibility on the one which has no liability to do it. Like church teaches chhristianity and hate for islam and in the mean while, scientists keep on doing their scientifical work. No one says that church shud produce scientists. Where as in pakistan, no university teaches islam and Musharraf (Pig
) asks madarasah to produce Engineers. Duh!
U r rite that west doesnt have these FITNA as they have alread passed through this period and christianity has already been torn into pieces.
Now, their target is Islam.
Unfortunately, we never have been taught abt the Deen correctly. We have been sent to the colleges and universties to get better education but never have been sent to madarsah to get best of ISlam.
Therefore, as we dont have any knowledge of madarsah and the ppl there, when we hear the propagandas abt them, we beleive in them.
And moreover, why the terms like extermism and fundamentalism and englightment have been raised after 9/11??? why not during the rule of nawaz sharif and Baynazir or in pig’s rule but before 9/11??? Why the madarasah have been blamed to produce terrorists after 9/11???
Just becuase that pig has to retain his govt. and do any thing to please Bush and company???
And these are the thing which are produced as a cover to kill all those who havent done any thing.
If they have done any thing, where are the proofs??
If u have some, show me. Becarefull not to point to the propagandas.
@JayJay – Wow, the old articles you provided are really something… brutally honest biting facts… Razi rocks! When a non-muslim westerner tries to deliver a message like that, its too easily dismissed as hateful or against Islam.
@Opee – nice post
@ iunknown
Actually the problem is that people like to blame on madrassas however they know nothing about ‘em couple of my friends studied there and now they are doing MBAs and LLbs ans other things but society and people don’t accept them easily and they are isolated ( jaao maulana sahib apni masjid chalao yeh parhai wagera aap ka bass ki baat nahin)
there are few problems
1- nobody announces scholarships for madrassas students however pepole require that the madrassa should produce genuine brands and it is worth to mention people who are sending their kids in madraasa belong to poor families (almost 60% are from poor families) schools are not in their areas nobody wants to go in their areas to teach …health and medical issues are there and so on
2- if we talk about that madrassa should produce real brand so they can be the part of our labour force to progress our country … ok fine very valid thing but univerisities colleges and schools keya produce karrahe hai? nothing but a clerical staffs people require every thing from molvis kah sab gunah se woh bachay, koi crime woh na kare, sab se qualified woh ho, what about other people what will they do? every responsibility is only for a cleric from social to religion?
health sector main jaao tou people have to give and pay 10-20 lacs as a bribery to get admission…. how can they afford and pay…..
MBA karne jaao tou people have to have 2-3 lacs ..aik poor family kaisay pay kare gi
same thing in other siuations….
hum main se kitnay hain kah if they think kah madrassa is producing nothing tou wahan kah 2-5 students ko (when they are free) ko hum educate kareen gay hum main se kitnay hain jo yeh responsibilty lete hain kah we they are passed out from madraasa we will enroll them in any college
@ iunknown
Actually the problem is that people like to blame on madrassas however they know nothing about ‘em couple of my friends studied there and now they are doing MBAs and LLbs ans other things but society and people don’t accept them easily and they are isolated ( jaao maulana sahib apni masjid chalao yeh parhai wagera aap ka bass ki baat nahin)
there are few problems
1- nobody announces scholarships for madrassas students however pepole require that the madrassa should produce genuine brands and it is worth to mention people who are sending their kids in madraasa belong to poor families (almost 60% are from poor families) schools are not in their areas nobody wants to go in their areas to teach …health and medical issues are there and so on
2- if we talk about that madrassa should produce real brand so they can be the part of our labour force to progress our country … ok fine very valid thing but univerisities colleges and schools keya produce karrahe hai? nothing but a clerical staffs people require every thing from molvis kah sab gunah se woh bachay, koi crime woh na kare, sab se qualified woh ho, what about other people what will they do? every responsibility is only for a cleric from social to religion?
health sector main jaao tou people have to give and pay 10-20 lacs as a bribery to get admission…. how can they afford and pay…..
MBA karne jaao tou people have to have 2-3 lacs ..aik poor family kaisay pay kare gi
same thing in other siuations….
hum main se kitnay hain kah if they think kah madrassa is producing nothing tou wahan kah 2-5 students ko (when they are free) ko hum educate kareen gay hum main se kitnay hain jo yeh responsibilty lete hain kah when they are passed out from madraasa we will enroll them in any college
sorry for lots of typos and i posted twice magar is main mera qasoor nahin hai i was afraid kah light na chali jaye and i hope so kah is loadshedding main kisi “Molvi” ka haath bhi nahin hoga
@IUnknown.QueryInterface(CLSID_Reasonable, &hopefully_not_void);
The ‘west’ isnt targetting Islam. The reasonable amoung us distinquish between those insaniacs (who happen to claim to be acting in the name of Islam) trying to harm our societies from Islam as a whole. We have a problem with the insaniacs (for lack of a better word).
Also, regarding the pursuit of science in the west. Actually, in the US the Catholic Church operates a great many schools including universities. The curriculum is largely secular, with an additional ‘religious studies’ class that would not be found in the public school system.
I attended a Catholic high school. The Christian brothers running the school did not teach me to hate Islam (or how to make a bomb), but they did introduce me to computer science :)
return !propaganda;
@Sameer – Its fun to read your writings, how you weave back and forth between English and Pakistani(?) is like overhearing bits of a conversation in a noisy place.
Somebody posted a link to an article about the madrassa education system in Pakistan and Bangledesh a few days ago. Very informative…
http://www.apcss.org/Publications/Edited%20Volumes/ReligiousRadicalism/PagesfromReligiousRadicalismandSecurityinSouthAsiach5.pdf
In the US, the Catholic schools, and all ‘private’ schools, have to be accredited by the state and conform to requirements set out by the state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_School
Michael, thanks for promptly quelling the propaganda of the ignorant. They base their arguments on hearsay, conspiracy theories and half-facts.
Michael.SendMessage(”
OK, but who told u that madarsah are weapon making schools?? Again propaganda. Have uy ever got ne proof? beside some of preplanned news for attacks on madarsah?
U r rite abt churches. But do u know all but most of the crusades were initiated by Fathers in churches?
Now, Wat if some one attacks on u and u havent done ne thing offensive?? U are surelly gona kick him, hang him and bang him.
Why afghanistan was attacked??? so as Iraq?? dont tell me the false story of WMDs and Taliban propaganda. Ppl in afghanistan these days are still referring to taliban courts ( so called Shria courts) for their cases. In their rule, the women , who used to do the jobs, were asked to quit those jobs, and instead get payed while sitting at home. Isnt that very very respectful for women????
“, U_were_driven_by_propaganda=true);
Sameer , u r some wat rite but now the trend has changed a lot. In IT industry, almost 60% of the ppl are having beared and they try to follow islam.
Those ppl who dont accept such molvi ppl are truely racists. They have to actually accept such kinda molvis when they will not be able to find ne one else around :) AS molvis are pretty talented, no end.
Now a days there are a lot of big madarsah like DArul uloom karachi, banori town etc where kids of rich ppl study.
Ur last para. has given us a really good idea. I think we shud all follow it
sorry i didnt read jayjay’s comments.
JayJay why dont u change ur religion from islam to some thing else.
Islam doesnt need ppl like u who always and all the time doing propaganda and letting others to laugh at us.
Actually Unknown Jayjay doesn’t need to change his religion. It’s not people like him/her who are causing all the death and destruction, is it? Maybe it is you who should change?
And when it comes to who people laugh at. Well frankly, it’s the oh-so-holy rage spewing fanatics who are the joke. In fact, if weren’t so terribly tragic it would be absolutely hilarious.
If you really want a good laugh, scroll up and re-read your own contributions. Truly pricelessly inept. Have you ever thought of doing comedy as a full time job?
Humour is the fanatics’ Achilles heel, they lack any sense of fun. They can’t take being ridiculed, it drives them mad and then they reveal their true selves. But they are so very easy to make fun of, I just can’t resist the temptation.
REally Sean?? its the mulla who is responsible for all the destruction???
I think u and some other ppl are suffering from “Mulla Fobia”. All the time blaming at mulla even u dont know wat r u saying and to whom u r pointing.
Better get cured. if not, then please stop spreading shit here.
Unknown, I didn’t use the word “Mulla” (sic), I used the word “fanatic”. It is you who have equated the two. A very interesting admission don’t you think.
Hopefully you are wrong and not all Mullahs are fanatics. Only the ones you support.
@IUNKNOWN you didnt answere the questions I raised in my July 15, 2007 04:07 AM posting, instead you started a new debate. But I appreciate the fact that you tried to presented some arguments, however naive, instead of making statements.
I agree to you on the fact that that great majority of Madressahs are passive and are doing their job the best way they know. They keep themslves out of the politics and concentrate on education. Few even offer “O” and “A” levels.
However, this does not mean that we shy away from the fact there are quite a few, who in the past couple of decades have astrayed. They are well funded, well supported and are nothing but training grounds for building a particular mindset. They have now matured into organizations that are Facist in nature.
Imam Abu Hanifa once said, ” When I give my interpretation on a issue (Masala) my students have different opinion about it and they dont necesssarily agree”. This is progressive thinking, whereas, “I am right you are wrong and you will have to accept what I say is Facism”. Such institutions that promote this mentality are not Madressahs, they are FITNA.
Now to your points about chistianity being torn to pieces and they are now targeting Islam, seggregation of ilm into religous ilm and dunyawi ilm etc….There is a beautiful word for this in English that is “paranoia”. I have travelled in the west and in the east and believe me nobody has time to hatch such conspiracies except for some Neo-Cons in Bush’s camp, whose days are also numbered. My friends in downtown Toronto go to church for saying Jumma prayers and there are countless examples like that where churches have given there space to muslims to say prayers.
The torch of ilm (knowledge) has been transferred to one civilization to another despite wars, carnage, priests and popes. Egyptions to Greeks, Greeks to Arabs and back to Europe. Also to mention contributions by Indian and Chinese.
So when Arabs embarked on this journey they setup Madressahs where all the knowledge from the newly conquered lands was assimilated along with Fiqh and history writing. They did a wonderful job and set the guidelines for how a modern educational institution should be designed and built. The modern day universities are a mere reflection of the work they did, where everything (including religion) is taught uncensored and undoctored. For this a lot of Muslim scholars like the founder of modern medicine Bu Ali Sina have to run for their lives, because he was declared Kafir by some Sarkaari Aalim. On the other side people like Coppernicus and Galileo were declared Kafirs by their Molvi’s. If these so-called priests had their way the world would still be flat not round.
So question is why would we deliberately like to throw away what we started. Its a right of every child to get basic education like language, grammer, maths, science, sirf-o-naho and when the child matures he should have the option to persue knowledge in the field of his choosing. Not like now when poor kids are deprived of this fundamental right.
So my friend we are just paranoid and lost, nobody is stopping us from correcting ourselves and start contributing to human development, whether it be through Madressah or School, we have to show the world that we can also carry the torch.
To add to the above: There is a huge difference in carrying the torch and using it to set a fire and burn the whole house down, it seems right now we are actively persuing the destructive use.
@KAmi, would u like to name some of the fanatic madarsah??
Regarding ur point abt Imam Abu Hanifa (RHA), that progressive thinking is still going on other wise there would not have been things in islam regarding digital pics , videos etc etc. I am right and ur wrong thinking has been deliberately developed by some fanatics to breakk muslims apart.
BUT wat is wrong in shria must be opposed by every means as we shud act according to Islam rather than turn islam according to our own needs or our Nafs.
U must have read that hadith in which its mentioned that stop the evil with hand ,then tongue and if u cant do any thing, think of it as evil, and thats the lowest level of imaan.
most of all of the ppl in west are ignorant of wat has been happening in the whole world. they only come to know when any event like 9/11 occurs.
There is a jewish lobby behind US govt. controlling the policies of US and directing the whole world.
We can still lead the world infact we have made some achivements but our govt. is so bzzy in killing muslims that it doesnt have time to look at these things.
Obviously, we are all saddened and aggrieved by the sad loss of life of any innocent lives, the brave shaheeds of our security forces, and even the misguided terrorists and extremists.
Dr. Shahid Masood has lost all his credibility by writing this self-projecting, emotionally charged and exploitative article. There is complete lack of objectivity and reason. Here is how:
1. By under-stating the blatant acts of incitement, treason, and violence committed by the extremists and the so-called ‘Talibat’, he has tainted everything he has written. The article starts by painting the serious acts of kidnapping, arson, and threats of suicide attacks as mere ’samjhana bujhana’ by these ‘bachchiyan’.
2. He only has the honour and respect for his favorite talibat in his mind when writing the article. What about the honor and dignity of the women who were kidnapped and made to confess forcefully in front of the whole world? Do we even know if they were guilty of anything. Will the honor of women be now decided in front of the world media at gunpoints of these pious ‘talibat’.?
3. His whole article seems to imply the government is to blame for the deaths of these two innocent girls. What about the fanatics who held them as bargaining chips for more than six months. What about their parents who should have taken them home?
4. Most importantly: I hope he writes an equally touching article on two other little girls: the little daughters of Col. Haroon Islam shaheed. They are today without a father. At least the ‘talibat’ of Jamia Hafsa had a choice – they could leave or they could continue to defy. What about Col. Haroon Islam shaheed’s little daughters? their father was snatched away from their without them even knowing or understanding why. His blood lies on the hands of the terrorist Abdur Rasheed, Abdul Aziz, and Umme Hassaan.
5. Finally, the article is full of self-projections and advertisements of Dr. Shahid’s piety. He makes sure we all know that gets up for Fajr (there was no need to inject this in the article), that he holds the maulana in high regard, and that he tried his best to broker a deal.
By presenting a very one-sided picture and dramatizing the story Dr. Shahid is feeding the fanatic frenzy and the growing Ghazi legacy. As a senior journalist of the country he should know better and act more responsibly.
@observant: Haroon islam wasa MURDAAR not shaheed.
Its totally his fault as he attacked masjid and madarsah.
His wife and children are breaing his fathers own mistake rather than any thing else.
I think u r from Musharraf and Co. and having mulla fobia.
Go and pray 5 times a day, inshALLAH afaqa hoga
@Observant you’re talking about honor and dignity of famous prostitute of Islamabad, Aunty Shamim?
according to PML Q’s Sardar Nasrullah Darashek , “if the famous Aunty Shamim published her client list then wives of almost 200+ members of ruling PML Q and MQM will file for divorce, and coz we all don’t want that to happen so PM should intervene..” he said in cabinet meeting and then Shaukat inquired about Aunty’s whereabouts and every one was looking at each other totally clueless.. very next day issue of Shuakat Aziz and Condoleeza Rice affair cropped up…
The response from D0CT0R and IUNKNOWN is symbolic of the sick mindset. These people think that Islam is their property and they are God’s favorites.
D0CTOR: Yes, for your knowledge every human has respect and dignity. Putting a burqa on does not make you more honorable or dignified than another woman. And those dishonoring ANY woman in front of media and the world are not worthy of being called a Muslim. But you and your favorite fanatics believe that any body who does not think or look like you (like the alleged prostitutes, the non-Deobandis, the Hazaras, the Shias, the non-salafis, the non-Muslims, Christians, Jews, and Hindus etc.) they are not worthy of human treatment and are legitimate targets for killings, bombings, slaughter, and humiliation. Our holy prophet (SAW) and our beautiful religion does NOT teach this. This is a creation of these fanatics.
IUNKNOWN: Haroon Islam Shaheed embraced shahadat honorably and with dignity – unlike the terrorists and extremists who held innocent children and women as hostages and human shield and one of those cowards tried to escape in a burqa while preaching fighting till the end to simple minds like you who are easily fooled by them. (Do you know the last point on which the whole deal was being negotiated to call off the whole operation: Ghazi’s insistence on HIMSELF being let go – so the whole fight was for his OWN self… forget about Shariat and mosque-demolition and anti-vice campaign etc.)
Also, don’t make the assumption you are the only one praying 5 times a day (if you are). There are many many right minded Muslims Alhamduillah who pray 5 times a day and still believe the fanatics are wrong and responsible for all of this.
InshaAllah the operation in Waziristan and NWFP will be launched and these terrorists will be wiped out completely. That will be good for Islam and good for Pakistan. InshaAllah. May Allah guide you to true Islam.
Prostitutes are known for their skimpy attire, but Kenya’s coastal port of Mombasa is witnessing a controversial fashion makeover.
The twilight ladies, as the city’s residents refer to the sex workers, have traded their revealing outfits for the more austere buibui – a loose, floor-length gown and head covering favoured by Muslim women.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/6291100.stm
Unknown says his government are bizy (sic) killing Muslims. Actually you may have noticed. 1, His government are Muslims and 2, Muslims being busy killing other Muslims isn’t particularly unusual these days.
Haven’t you been reading the news from your own country Unknown? Lots of Muslim’s killing Muslims going on (But that’s the kind of Islam Unknown likes, isn’t it?) Same as Iraq, Lebanon, Gaza. Sudan, Somalia etc, etc and etc. World media is dominated by Muslims killing other Muslims for, usually being the wrong kind of Muslims, with depressingly daily regularity. What do you think you look like from outside? A great civilisation?
Please, feel free, do carry on slaughtering each other if that’s what you really want. At least It gives us Westerners (and Thais, Philipinos, Serbs Israelis, Indians, Russians, Darfuris etc etc) a bit of a rest (the recent cowardly and pathetically amateur attempt to kill girls in a disco in my home town, London, notwithstanding). So if you guys really want to kill each other, What motive would we have to want to do anything but encourage you, eh? Answer me that..
Hey but don’t worry. There’s still your best friends the Chinese. They’ll make sure everything works out just fine for you, won’t they?
He can not give those girls names. How convinient. Were they working in a brothel that he can not give their names.
This is the same guy who swears on TV that there was not even one jew killed in WTC.
in 2011, don’t forget to watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzEHcJBVNGU similar movie for pervez musharraf and chemical tariq. americans don’t tolerate these crimes even if they are committed in there name.
Interesting point:
10 جولائی سےاب تک بہت سی تبدیلیاں رونما ہوئی ہیں۔لڑائی کی صفیں بندھ گئی ہیں۔ایک طرف مذہبی انتہا پسند سمجھتے ہیں کہ لال مسجد کارروائی پر بھرپور ردِعمل دینے میں ناکام رہے تو اُن کی پسپائی سمندر میں جا کر ختم ہوگی۔دوسری طرف فوج کا خود کو پیشہ ور سپاہی سمجھنے والا دھڑا خیال کرتا ہے کہ اگر ریاستی حاکمیت اور فوجی قوت پر چاند ماری کا موزوں جواب نہ دیا گیا تو داخلی اور خارجی محاذوں پر بقا دشوار ہوجائے گی۔
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/miscellaneous/story/2007/07/070715_wajahat_attacks_rza.shtml
@IUNKNOWN I agree there is no Madressah teaching fanaticism. Our northern areas are littered with training camps who provide millitary training and offer some religous courses too and call theselves this Madrassah or that Madrassah. Mullah Fazluullah of Swat rides on a horse and travels from village collecting money for his training camps and there are others in Waziristan and FATA.
My dear, who says by using digital technology and video, that you have adopted progressive thinking. Is making a video of beheading an innocent hostage and broadcasting it using modern technology such as internet, indicates that you are a progressive thinker. Come on you can do better than that.
As for your views about ipmosition of shariat, I dont how can I convince you otherwise, so I give up.However, I will suggest some traveling, book reading and meeting some real scholars with different views then your mentors.
I absolutely agree with you on one count. Muslims have and are making an impact in the present day world, but the tragedy is we dont even know who they are. I will list three current examples;
1/ Mohammed Yunus from Bengladesh – Nobel Prize winner, founder of the Gramine Bank for the poor. He has revolutionized the whole concept of Banking. For his bio go to;
http://www.grameen-info.org/
2/ Akhtar Hameed Khan from Pakistan. Founder of Orangi Pilot Project and microcredt for the poor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhtar_Hameed_Khan
3/ Tasneem Ahmed Siddiqui from Pakistan. Gave the world “Khuda ki Basti” a model for how to provide housing for the poor.
http://www.un.org.pk/undp/sgp/green-pioneers/chap-18.htm
Here are my heroes, two of them my country men. Their pioneering work is being copied around the world. But are they your heroes. Never mind, go ahead and follow some crazy zealot with blood on his hands.
IUNKNOWN: You have again displayed you highly piety-imbibed very low level of tolerance by suggesting that I should leave Islam merely because I don’t agree with your narrow and rigid viewpoint. I don’t need your license or permission from any Mullah for that matter regarding my personal and private faith. Keep prostituting Islam and then bemoan the “loss of image” for Islam. With people like you and Mullah Rasheed among the faithful, who needs an enemy?
MUSLIMS KILLING MUSLIMS
IUNKNOWN laments the killing of Muslims at the hands of a Muslim government. I don’t think any sensible person would identify a terrorist or a criminal by his religion and would be ready to pardon his crimes for his personal piety. Operation Sunrise was only meant to make this city and country safer for its Muslim citizens by eliminating highly armed and trained terrorists, who were not willing to surrender to the government despite several opportunities offered to them. What will you call kidnapping of Muslim citizens from their homes, occupation of public property, setting fire to government buildings, piling illegal weapons in a mosque, making children hostages and human shields, etc? You would have more credibility had you unconditionally condemned the killings of Muslims soldiers of Pakistan by the Talibanic terrorists in NWFP and the tribal areas.
What is your viewpoint on the killing of over 200,000 fellow Muslims by the Shariaee government of Sudan during the last few years? Over 2 millions of these Muslims have to flee their homes, with thousand of women raped, by the forces of the Islamic government and its allies Janjaweed militia. The only reason for this genocide is that these Muslims are black and non-Arab. What do you think of massacres committed by the highly pious Taliban in Afghanistan killing thousands of fellow Muslims in Mazar-e-Sharif and Kabul during the late 1990s?
Come on @SCEAN Be easy on the guy, I am trying to engage him.
DOCTOR: Thank you for quoting Dareshak. It reminds me of another mullah, Maulana Sandwich, as Sami-ul-Haq of Jamia Haqania, the alma matar of the Taliban, was called by the newspapers when he was caught by Islamabad Police at a brothel in F-10 as few years back. “Sandwich” explains the devout maulana’s preferred sexual positions as explained by Madam Tahira of the head of the brothel during her interviews. On another note Sami the Sandwich is also known for marrying a 16-year old girl every other year to keep his private life spiced up.
“Maulana Fazlur Rehman wears robes of golden thread and was dubbed “Maulana Diesel” after allegations were made?though never proven?that he was involved in a fuel scam. Maulana Samiul Haq earned the nickname “Sandwich Sammy” after being photographed (presumably by Pakistani intelligence officers) in an inventive position with several bedmates. ”
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,361788,00.html?iid=chix-sphere
These two gentlemen run and control more madrassas in Pakistan than anyone else.
from today’s news
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20077\16\story_16-7-2007_pg7_23
Well done Observant, you got convincing power.
@JAYJAY you are on the roll!! Wow
No doubt its a true story, and its painfull that they killed hundreds of innocent people in Lal Masjid. I think not as a muslim but as a human being no one will appreciate the Pakistani Government.
No doubt its a true story, and its painfull that they killed hundreds of innocent people in Lal Masjid. I think not as a muslim but as a human being no one will appreciate the Pakistani Government.
@observant:
>>(Do you know the last point on which the whole >>deal was being negotiated to call off the whole >>operation: Ghazi’s insistence on HIMSELF being >>let go – so the whole fight was for his OWN >>self… forget about Shariat and mosque->>demolition and anti-vice campaign etc.)
Go and get a life. U dont know the reality or u dont want to know the reality. ARG (RHA) agreed on every thing but the PIG changed the contract and said we will sue on u. Before that, the agreement was done on the transfer of ARG to his home safe and sound. There were some other things as well which u SHUD read and then talk to me.
@Sean: Look who is talking. The problem is that media hightlights muslims as any thing. In west, daily there is rape of dozen women. I will give u exact analysis laters . Infact, after every few seconds, there is a rape and murder. There is a lot more to say but i know u r wise enough :D
@Jayjay: if u dont know any thing then please shut up. Dont spread shit abt islam. I am not sfaying that u shud agreee with me. U need to grow up.
As far as sudan is concerned, i dont have much knowledge abt that. I will read abt that and tell u.
@Kami, u took me wrong here
>>My dear, who says by using digital technology >>and video, that you have adopted progressive >>thinking. Is making a video of beheading an >>innocent hostage and broadcasting it using >>modern technology such as internet, indicates >>that you are a progressive thinker. Come on >>you can do better than that.
Reread my post again.
dont u think in palestine, kashmire, chechenia, bosnia, afghanistan we need armed muslims for the resistance. Who is gona take part in that? Ppl like us??? who spend whole day infront of PC doing useless arguments. If some ppl are preparing for such things, why dont we appreciate them? (dont relate this thing widh suicidal bombings in pakistan as RAW and other enemies may use this oppertunity as well which is creted by that pig , after operation)
Dont worry, i have plans for having a round teh world trip later on :)
I have met some gr8 scholars of the time ALHUMDULLILAH, and im pretty much content with my self. Would u suggest some name of gr8 scholars? may be i cud arrange the visit to them
from today’s news
Musharraf ’suffers from messiah complex
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20077\16\story_16-7-2007_pg7_11
p.s. every one knows that hamid karzai is more venomous then indians..
http://www.darsequran.com/articles/english/are_maulvis.php
http://www.darsequran.com/articles/english/extremists.php
http://www.darsequran.com/articles/english/crime.php
http://www.darsequran.com/articles/urdu/art_htmls/fashisht.php
@DOCTOR the type of language you use, borders around facist thought. Indians are this, Americans are that,…. we are right and noble so kill them all.
Your perception of the world is limited to the sort of articles you read and post. It lacks first hand experience and shows lack of travel, which might not be your fault. I hope someday you get a chance to actually go somewhere, that might force you to think outside the Box.
Who says all are righteuos every nation in the recent past has had its share of Hitlers, Missoulini’s, Osama’s and jokers like Bush. On the other side there are Mandella’s, Gandhi’s and Martin Luther King’s. Its upto you who you like to emulate.
Living in a cocoon and fearing that every body is out there to eat me will get you no where. You have got nothing to fear bu fear itself.
@IUnknown
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cvus05.pdf
I dunno whether it is reliable or not but I have seen it before so just pasting a link for you.
@IUNKNOWN exactly, places like palestine, kashmire, chechenia, bosnia, afghanistan dont need jihaadists. I’ll take them on one by one;
Palestine:
This conflict was never a jihaad rather than an Arab israeli fight. Both christian and muslim arabs are in this together and are the members of organization fighting for I don’t know what?, In the recent past when things were going to settle down, Hamas appeared on the scene and spoiled the party with senseless suicide attacks, now they are going no where. Currently both Fatah and Hamas are bending over backwards to show Israel and the west that they are the people to talk to. Two facts about the Arab-Israeli. Israel never attacked any of the Arab nations. Infact, five of them attacked together and were beating resoundingly by a commited Israeli army. Talk to Dr. Israr Ahmed about this issue if you get the chance. He will give you an un-biased opinion.
Kashmere:
A bleeding wound of partition of India, result of treacherous manoeuvring by the then British Viceroy. A tribal lashkar in 1947-48 could have secured Sri Nagar for Pakistan; instead they indulged in looting and rioting enabling the Indian army to sneak in and pushed them back. The struggle for Kashmir was started by Kashmir Leberation Front a revolutionary socialist outfit – motto independent Kahmir. Its leader Maqbool butt hanged by India. The second uprsing started by the people in response to election rigging, turned into a popular movement when civilians were killed indiscriminately by the Indian Security Forces. The movement was doing well, gaining support around the world, as both Muslim & Hindu Kashmiri’s demanded justice/independence. Enter Jihaadi organizations, sabotaging the whole movement, indulging in mass killing of Hindu pandits and Sikhs living there for centuries, then turning on their own people and killing muslims that didn’t agree to their methos. Result Kashmir struggle is going no where, no leadership and the label of terrorism.
Chechnia:
This struggle again started by Dudayev a communist General in the Red Army, wanted autonomy for his region in the wake of eminent soviet break-up. Soviets choosed to attack Grozny. The city was bravely defended by Chechens and the Russian Army was humiliated. The Chechens enjoyed sympathies and support of the whole world including Europe and America. Unfortunately, the Russians got Dudayev nd the vacuum was filled by a Jihaadist clan. Again the same story, bombing of civilians, kidnapping & killing of innocent children, killing their own who do not agree to their methods, now the world has withdrawn its support, from heroes they have turned to villains. I am afraid Chechens are also going no where.
Bosnia:
After the death of Marshall Tito and breakup up of Yugoslavia. The volatile Balkan region faced civil war between dominant Serbs and the rest i.e. Croatians, Bosnians and Kosovians. Serbs attacked and killed Croatians who are Christians and Bosnians who are muslims, well educated and progressive. They fought back well. They did not allow jihaadist to infiltrate and hijack their struggle. The whole world supported them, they are now independent. Currently they are mending bridges and moving forward.
Afghanistan:
More than 30 years of war and chaos. Bruitally used my Russian, US and Pakistani governments (and now by Bin Laden) to promote their selfish agenda’s. Currently nobody has a clue how to fix it, unless people themselves get tired and say we have to think of something else. Consequences for Pakistan are astronomical because the developments there threatens the very fabric of our society and can turn the whole country into a Jirga of some sort.
Now after this boring Lecture let me give you one example of how to fight for your rights;
South Africa:
The blacks in South Africa despite being in majority suffered the most brutal and inhuman treatment at the hands of their racist government for centuries, much more than the sufferings of Muslims in any part of the world. Their Leader Nelson Mandela endured 25 years of imprisonment. But he never allowed his people to use violence or killing innocents for their cause. He and his people endured whatever the government could throw on them but never faltered in their struggle. They succeeded!! and more amazingly forgave whatever happened in the past. There was no blood bath after they got power. The result both black and white south Africans are working together to build their country.
I hope you will be able to make some sense out of what I said above. As for scholars, I will recommend Prof. Mohd Ali and Ghamidi, have a frank chat with them. If you are the one seeking the truth and are open to seeing the world from somebody else’s eyes then someday you will find it.
Anybody besides we wondering just what kind of trip IUknown has plans for?
@MICHAEL He can swim to all the nudist beaches around the world to study the impact of global warming.
@Kami i can safely bet that i’ve got more entry and exit stamps & visas from all around the world on my green passport then most of you enlightened lot here… i can easily get 2nd passport as well and settle down in west but i choose not to.. that said
i would just add that being well traveled is one thing and suffering from “enlightened moderation” syndrome is totally something else….
@DOCTOR I was not talking to you. I know where you are coming from. You are the self righteous hardened type. I have no doubt that you are well travelled and well read. The difference between you and me is that you are an ideolog and I am not. Ironically, my ideology is to oppose any idelogy whether it be neo-con, socialist or islamist, because if you have an ideology then ultimately you will try to impose it, and thats where the conflict starts and innocents get crushed.
@IUNKNOWN take no offense it was all in good humour.
@DOCTOR I checked back on earlier posts, I admit my remarks about your travels were un warranted, I was trying to address two guys in one post, any way I take them back. But I still stand by my last post.
IUNKNOWN said: “@Jayjay: if u dont know any thing then please shut up. Dont spread shit abt islam. I am not sfaying that u shud agreee with me. U need to grow up.”
The use of vulgar language and blatant demonstration of intolerance are typical of Islamists. Keep spreading the ignorance, paranoia, conspiracies and parochialism from your pulpit of self-righteousness. In fact, self-righteousness of the Islamists knows no bounds. Although your-know-all personality won’t let you, it is time you start reading objective and rational material to open up your mental horizon.
How can the highlighting of the “achievements” of great Maulanas and their ilk tantamount to spreading of “shit abt islam”? If we have to build up the image of Islam, our mullah and Islamists, the sole thekedar of Islam, need to raise their moral standards.
Yes, do read about the situation in Darfur (but not in Urdu press) and enlighten us with your justification for this genocide of Muslims at the hands of a Shariah government and its allies.
IUNKNOWN: The success of Jihad in places like Palestine, Kashmir, Chechnya, etc, as Kami has pointed out, is a pipe dream. Unless you are trying to be naïve, go through history to get clues about the chances of success of militancy and terrorism. Three armed wars fought by Pakistan for Kashmir, besides supporting a couple of militant insurgencies; three wars fought by Arabs against Israel and countless insurgencies; and two wars in Chechnya; have shown Muslims cannot wrest these areas by force. Only Egypt was able to secure back Sinai desert it had lost to Israel in 1967 through a peace agreement, the Camp David agreement, not by the use of force. However, there is no ban on dreaming, if you want to do so, rather than learning from history.
By the way, when you go on your “world tour” leave you suicide belt home. May I ask which countries you plan to visit just to get an idea about what does you “world” involve.
@jayjay: ok i leave mullas out of the way. So ppl like u gona lead the prayers???
Abt the wars, u mean to say is that we shud carry on using peace. duh!
Wat musharraf has got by following Peace and enlightment after 9/11??? loss of lives?? loss of respect?? Had he would have taken stand against Us govt. I m sure USa wouldnt have done ne thing like it hasnt been able to do any thing widh Venezuela and korea.
The more u bow, the more they gona make u bow.
The only way to get these areas( mentioned in ur post ) is by force. As they are not willing to give u for granted.
Yeah i know history . back to 712 AD , was sindh given to Mohammad Bin Qasim for granted by dahir??
Was spain given to muslims using thing like Camp David ???
Was Istanbul given for granted??????????
Yeah but we lost spain (gernada as last territory) using Thing like camp david . Go and read the history. dont read Stenley lane pool and other racists other wise u will say that muslims killed Kafir army wid out any reason.
>>Yes, do read about the situation in Darfur >>(but not in Urdu press) and enlighten us with >>your justification for this genocide of >> Muslims at the hands of a Shariah government >>and its allies
Y not urdu presS? as english press is so biased against muslims that if any rat has been killed, it show Mulla and Taliban are the killers .. Lo
L
@Micheal: wat happened?? y are u so quite?? Sorry if i have said some thing offensive by opening Ur history of FAthers in front of U :D
@Kami: Nice detailed post. I will answer u after a while as it will take quite more time to do that.
I knew u gona name that Ghamidi who dont know how to write arabic. I wish i cud send u his writting and errors picked up by scholars.
I m only gona swim to nudest beaches to see why so called enlighted and civilized ppl do such vulgar things openly. Y dont they have modesty?
@doctor: Have u ever been to spain???? I love that place and would like to travel there specailly Gernada and Cordoba.
Can u cure mulla fobia??
He,y you guys are here, JayJay specially you :)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/science/story/2007/07/070715_blog_pta_rza.shtml
I think the time is not to blame eachothers because loog ager khuch karna chaheen tou they can do everything anywhere so if we talk to finish madrassa system tou whynot khuch acha kareen as i mentioned earlier
Specialised modern program for fresh Madrasa graduates
Press Statement/Markazul Ma’arif
Mumbai: Markazul Ma’arif Education & Research Centre (MMERC), Mumbai declares entrance test dates for the batch–2007-2009. The combined entrance test will be held for total 40 seats–25 in MMERC, Mumbai and 15 in Markaz-e Islami, Ankleshwar, Gujarat. The written test is to be conducted on 1st August 2007 in Public Girls’ Higher Secondary School at Deoband. Only the candidates who pass the written test will be eligible for the interview to be held on 3rd August 2007.
MMERC, a branch of Assam based Markazul Ma’arif (NGO) was established in Delhi in 1994 and was shifted to Mumbai in 2000. Basking in the glory of success MMERC enters in the fourteenth year of its novel concept in the academia- to teach English language with other modern subjects of the age to the fresh Ulama– the madrasa graduates. The institution introduced a two-year course, ‘Diploma in English Language and Literature’ (DELL) for first time in the world to educate the Ulama in a completely new environment and equip them with subjects hitherto unknown to them such as English language, Computer & Internet, Comparative study of religions, History, basic of Geography, Mathematics, Political science and other general sciences.
MMERC renders educational services for free. It also provides the students with basic amenities like lodging, food and medicine etc. In addition to its own trained teaching faculties the institution hires the services of the accomplished visiting faculties for the above-mentioned subjects with an aim to help the students demonstrate their skillful articulation of thoughts and presentations about their religion–Islam and to boost their confidence in order to face the challenges of the modern world and ultimately serve the nation with devotion.
MMERC conducts a highly competitive entrance test with set of objective type questionnaires- at the end of the academic year (by the month of Rjabul Murajjab) of Darul Uloom Deoband. Out of the several hundreds who face the test for every batch only 25 students are enrolled in MMERC on merit basis. The test divides in two phases–oral and written covering five subjects as a whole–Arabic Language & Literature, Hadith, Fiqh, Tafseer and general knowledge followed by interview. Having the degree of Alimiat or Fazilat from any known madrasa of India one is entitled to sit in the combined entrance exams for DELL in MMERC, Mumbai and Markaz-e Islami, Ankleshwar, Gujarat to make it to the final list. Application form with prospectus can be found and submitted at Dept. of English and Dept. of Computer in Darul Uloom Deoband on or before 30th July and at MMERC, Mumbai and Markaz-e Islami, Gujarat on or before 27th July only.
Following the success of Markazul Ma’arif Education & Research Centre (MMERC) there are also some other institutions in the country that have endorsed the idea and started the same course under the patronage of MMERC. Darul Uloom Markaz-e Islami Ankleshwar, Gujarat, Jamia Jalalia Hojai, Assam, Al- Ma’had-e Islami, Hyderabad, Jamia Syed Ahmad Shaheed, Lucknow are some to mention. Department of English and Department of Computer in Darul Uloom Deoband, headed by MMERC alumni, are also the visionary work of Maulana Badruddin Ajmal Al-Qasmi founder president of Markazul Ma’arif, India.
according to some latest news abt lal masjid, abt 1600 students weere gunend down and abt 400 soldiers died.
According the a ranger person posted their during operation, “there were so many dead bodies that it was hard to place the foot”.
Another news says that soldiers even fired on those children who were surrundering.
This has confirmed the propadanga again , which was started by media and which is supported heavily at kafirabad.metblog.com.
More news to come
Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahamatullah,
Hello everybody how are you ppls. Well I am new here but I’ve been reading all of your comments suggestion opinion etc etc. Yes everybody has right to say and think there is no boundary. Well to be honest I was thinking we all talk to much but how much we concentrate and try to do those. Has any one of us is Pray for those killed by their own brother. 1 out of 100. Did we dua for their relative or father who lost his son in this game. Yes it was a game. Have we ever found in wealthy or rich or business person kids in Madrasa having a class of Hifaz or trying to become a Alim. Sorry to say none non of us willing to do these. We want our kids to be a engineer or doctor. Who we find in Fajir Salah, Milk man (doodh wala), Rikshwa driver, gardner. Have we seen any so called Business man in Fajir Salah. We shouldn’t blame any Govt. How Govt get selected. By us! We should sort out ourselves first then blame other. I call myself I am a muslim but inheritance one. Because my father and grand grand dad was muslim that is why I am muslim. How many times a day we remember Allah. Ask yourself. In morning we rush to our office that we are getting late but are we ever for our Salah in Mosque? We are we ever rush for any Deene Majis? Again question mark. Yes we rush when we know there is a concert and entry fee is just 10 rupee. You people are lucky to have mosque every corner of street. But here in UK you have to drive at least 5 miles for getting any Jamat. Another question how many times we open Quran in our daily life. Yes we do open in Ramadan and if something happen in family yes we do 5 times a prayer and do some Ayatay Karima. Other than that we are very busy in our daily life. This is also another sign of day of judgement.
MY WEEK SUGGESTION:
We do use to have some sort of guides when we were in schools and colleges get also extra tutors for some special subject my dear all yes we do need the same thing for our life. We need to find a pious person (I am not talking about a Molvi’s hazrat) I mean a Sheikh a Sheikh like Junaid Jamshaid’s (Maulana Tariq Jameel – PAK), a Sheikh like Hazrat maulana Saleem Dhorat – UK, a Sheikh like Peer Zulfiqar Ahmed from USA, there are a big list of Sheikh to whom you can discuss how to lead your life. Yes we are muslims do we need these. I know what islam is yes 5 times a prayer, who is the last prophet, Zakah and Hajj. Is this all islam. What about your daily life routine. Are we giving proper rights to our Parents. Specially our poor wives!
We threat them from the very first night, you have to look after my parents, they shouldn’t be un happy. And if this poor girl ask for separate house or flat which we can afford easily. But what will be our answer is I can’t leave my parents but I can leave you. I wasn’t aware of any rights of anybody. But when I read one Hadith, the brief summary is “Oh! You man, you should be careful (afraid) about your wife’s right”. We take this thing vary light. And in one occasion when one of the prophet’s Muhammad (S.A.W – sallal la ho aalay hay wasalam) companion came and ask him that he took his mother on his shoulder and performed the Hajj, is he paid his mother rights. Prophet (S.A.W) said you even didn’t pay a single night milk which she gave you. It is a very simple to understand when we’ll enough knowledge but it is difficult when we don’t. May Allah (S.T – Subhanau Tala) gives a light to understand our Deen on which we can spend our daily life. I know you people get bore reading such a big article but it was a thought to share. Assalamu alikum Wa Rahamatullah. Oh! By the way my name is Iqbal and I am from UK.
Nice to see people debating. Better we debate and discuss than bomb and kill each other. I am a firm believer that this is the time of trials and tribulations and every one of us who claim to be a Muslim should disassociate with this mass-hypocrisy. All these political / religious-political /rightist /leftist are insincere and dishonest. Better take refuge in your homes, repent and pray for Allah’s mercy.
Remember Hajjaj bin Yusuf. He alone executed 125,000 men. He beheaded leaders like Sa’id bin Zubair. He put prominent scholars like Abdullah bin Umar and Abdullah bin Zubair (Allah be pleased with them) to death. Before being executing, Sa’id bin Zubair told him that now you will not be able to set out for anyone. On the saying of this by Said bin Zubair, Hajjaj bin Yusuf passed away within fifteen nights. Even the learned and the peaceful men of that era looked upon Hajjaj as a calamity and curse sent down by God.
Hadhrat Hasan Basri (Rahmatullahi Alayhi) used to say, “Hajjaj is a calamity sent by God, do not try to remove him by force but ask Allah Taa’la.” Therefore, the moment the news of the death of Hajjaj was reported Hadhrat Hasan Basri and Umar bin Abdul Aziz fell in prostration to God and exclaimed,” The pharaoh of this nation is no more!
@IUNKNOWN I dont know about your sources, these figures are news to me. All I can say is that, very well oiled propaganda machines are now in full production mode. Magazines are already out with all sorts of claims and stories.So beware, there is no dearth of people trying to take political advantage out of this tragedy. People who could have done a lot, but choosed to encourage one side and critisize the other and now they trying to reep the fruits, and their target are pp like you.
pp short for people ….sorry
Self: Thanks for the link. It is good to know that this blog is being noticed.
no jayjay, its a truth. Its not that political parties. I hate all the politicians who didnt help any thing in lal masjid op.
These news are from unbiased sources and are true. they will not be (might not be) appearing in any sort of news paper so i cant give u any link rite now.
@Iqbal: 100% rite. but who has the time to do so. Every one is busy in making money, importing and exporting food :) And they claim jannah as if their parents have leased the plot there.
May ALLAH guide us to the rite path ( ameen )
A thought provoking article by Zafar Abbas
http://dawn.com/2007/07/18/top9.htm
Assalamu alaikum brother Unknown, yes you are right this Shytan has grab us very strongly by mind and now very are helpless. We can’t even think good anymore. Brother at the end world has too be an end and these all are the sign of Qiyamat. I don’t know how long i’ll live nobody know because of the current situation. Just came to know about this Islamabad bombing. Quite shocked how people brain washed other. You know what i’ve the same situation here in UK, i’ve got one good Gora police officer friend and he as asking but i must say sort of investigation when i called him for dinner, he was asking what is jihad and how ppls brain wash and do this sucide well i must say that most of the ppls specially like beard ppl like me could be in survilence any way. The time will come when muslim will be slaughter like animal. So should we not prepare ourselve everytime. Instead of driving car with songs who knows we can make our journey to that place or we’ll be die in accident. The good solution that we should start perform 5 times salah and do istagfar, our believe is so week otherwise the so called DUA, which we do but never accept simple reason we read our DUA like reading book but not with Heart.Honest i forget when i read TAHAJUD last time.I feel shame to call myself muslim. Anyway i request you all do think positive and don’t blame other. If we make things right through our house so Inshallah there will be a time we might lives in each other hearts. Think about it and before night sleep just scan yourselve what we’ve done whole day. And how many times we please Allah(SWT).Did we make hime Happy or Not? Oh! i better resume my work. By the way i’ve very very good site at the moment i beg and request kindly listen this lecture in peace and after give to our ladies(like Amma ji, sisters and wives) this is really something we need to keep in our mind. Thanks again you all lot. May Allah (S.W.T) bless us with Iman and Save us from Fire of Hell. Assalamu alaikum wa rahamatullah. Iqbal
sorry me back forget to paste the link. do let me know are we do the same which we suppose to do. Luv
Ah! Iqbal.. U R really Iqbal :)
Iqbal: i need to contact u privaately for some reason. is it possible?
Dear IQBAL you are the sort of muslim that I like. Pious, with a lot of fear of God. You don’t justify killing, on the contrary you pray for everybody. Hope you stay that way and convince others to give up their radical thoughts by embracing love and letting go of hate.
As for me I have a belief system quite different than yours, and my view of life is also very different but one thing that I see in common with you is self criticism (apney garebaan mein dekhna), you do it from a religious point of view and I from a purely human perspective.
Let’s hope and pray that those who have gone astray and have blood on their hands will realize their folly and will give up violence. Meantime, please continue to show them the mirror.
On the lighter side, chill out, don’t worry about missing tahajjud or listening to an odd song once in a while, I am sure your God will understand. Also, I fully empathize with you on the fact that life has been made much more difficult for people like you, by the mad acts of a few. The long beard and the dress make you a target of ridicule and discrimination. My advice – just hang in there, be true and keep on praying.
@kami: This line goes for
I dont remember the first line of this sher by Allama IQbal.
Wa’iz ko yeh zid hay, kay peena bhee chor dey
yeah ALLAH understands every thing thats y ALLAH has prohibited every thing like music. ( this cud start a new argumeent, but im not interested in that). This world is just an exam and we have to refrain from some things which are instructed by ALLAH. Else we gona get punishment.
Doesnt matter wat we like , we must act on wat ALLAH likes. This makes a true muslim.
Assalamu alaiku wa rahamatullah, my email add is kardamay@hotmail.com. sorry all the link i put is right but forgot to mention which one we all need to listen is “MUSIBAT PER FAWAID”. This is sort lectures i like and thats make me strong when my only first child passed away in her only 14 months. She is been through 3 open heart surgery and the first was when she was only 10 days. But because of these lectures i’ve been listend make me strong and the word we all should remember is “INA LILLAHAY WA INA ILLAHAY RAJAYON”. THAT IS IT. Once occassion i’ve been given statement that i don’t have heart because i didn’t cry. How strange but who knows i was crying in my heart but anyway i am here to give some support to other so we can learn from each other. Again Mr or Ms Iunknown let me tell you one thing or you might heard or not but here some little knowledge people said the translation of Quron should be change it is out dated now. May Allah bless him with right knowledge. Poor man didn’t had enough knowledge to understand that the only Quran will give him a success. I can bet too. Because since i start learning Quran in this old age oh by the way im only 36 not bhudda anyway and start implementing these things in a surrounding of white people Al hamdulillah i am too success. I’ve a lot of story to share and the only reason to share is make you people gives a support that this thing could be happened because some still saying these things doesn’t exit, Islam is a bit old NO No No Dear it is still same as when it was descend to the Prophet Mohammad (S.A.W). I’ll finish with this small story. I took my friend who was from karachi to show him some london places and he was shocked and saying Iqbal how come you enjoy in this situation where people knows all beard person is Al-Qaeda. Ha. ha. you know what where we went people look at me and they change their ways i could be a suci…bo…r ha.ha..so i am didn’t frightened but these gora..Anyway the more you read and listen and sit in a good gathering your IMAN will be polish and you feel more secure and stronger. But bear in mind you need to find out good so called MOLVI, not the one he just have bear and that is it. Search him and ask yourself is he the right one who is following the rules which we suppose to be. Mind it the rules one im talking is the real one which Quran says summary”Oh! you people you have the example of the Prophet’s(S.A.W) life to follow”. Assalamu alaikum wa rahamatullah. Iqbal
hi me again quick one for IUNKNOWN if you send me an email pls put “ISLAMABAD BLOGG” in subject line. Thanks. Assalamu alaikum wa rahamatulla.
gr8 ambitions Iqbal. Keep it up. May ALLAH be wid u.
Assalamu alaikum, hey hey did anybody listen that lecture which i mentioned above. if not HHMMMMMM. Anyway I am not forcing, take your time. Do remember others in your DUA. Assalamu alaikum.Iqbal
Is there anyone who has the balls to admitt that all the religions are retrogressive and against the nature. They are unappealing to the aesthatics of an intelligent man.There is a war of Ds going on between east and west for thousands of years, and right now the west has th
e bigger one.Religion is just a tool.I was borned amuslim.
I am weeping as I read this article.
Assalamu alaikum wa rahamatullah, mashallah brother good view. I agree with you that religion is just a tool.I am a born muslim as well. I believe you also know that HEAVEN & HELL is a fairy tale. Can you please justify is this true or not.I am a bit confuse. Other side like Gora brother to whom which will be BOW soon in so called muslim country PAKISTAN.I am just dreaming how our country will look like. Enjoy your life. No GOD. Nobody proof that any existing of God this is all EVOLUTION. So there will be a good news for everybody where do not need to be worry about and good or bad deeds. YEAH BUT THERE IS SO MANY PROOFS WHICH EXCEPT THERE IS ONE GOD NAME ALLAH, and al hamdulillah now the sceintist except all the miracle which was written more than 1400 years ago. But we’ll only believe what the research says but we’ll not accept what Allah (S.W.T) saying in Quran. Just a one quick note who doesn’t belive in Hell. There was a research that after certain degree of burn the person then doesn’t feel any pain. WOW! what a research and now that ALLAH (S.W.T) saying in quran summary is “we’ll punished regarding our bad deeds, where our flesh will be burn and after it will be regain” did anybody understand that bit. I’ll tell according to scientist after certain degree of skin (flesh) burn there isin’t any feeling that is why Allah (S.W.T) giving skin back to that person so he can enjoy punishment. Now my dearest MR MANSOOR RANA. THERE IS A TRUE RELIGION WHICH NAME IS ISLAM. Which guides every one from the very first day till end of our life. Yeah people are true when they said Islam is difficult well difficult for only who never follow. It is very hard now a days to pray 5 times a day. But very easy and simple for muslim. Because according to the Prophet’s (S.A.W) hadith summary: “the only difference b/w muslim and kufar is NAMAZ”. But if we look around us we exactly doing the same what kufar is doing. Having a SEX before marriage, living together before marriage, do not give respect to parent, we are free to do whatever we want. Anyway choice is our to accept whether there is a religion or not. And if yes, what is heaven & hell.DO WE WANT TO SACRIFICE OUR LIVES FOR HEAVEN OR SACRIFICE OUR PARENTS FOR OUR PLEASURE. Assallamu alaikum wa rahamatullah. MAY ALLAH (S.W.T) SHOWS A RIGHT PATH TO US. AMEEN
SIR i am not well equiped to give you a pedantic dialouge about religion.The literal meaning of the word religion is to look back,if you want you discuss on this for days.
If religion works for you and makes you a better human being,its fine by me.
I am not going to Hell or Heavan you should be worried about it.
Dear brother, i think you got it wrong.i do apologise in front of everybone if i hurt you, but i can’t see i said diret to you that are going either hell or heaven.nobody know who will go where. Brother so far i can see some people really have wrong info about Molvi’s and other. Wonder for religion we don’t have enough to confirm that the things we heard is it right or wrong.Again here in UK too our muslims brother saying Islam is very old religion and the same thing i found here. Anyway brother i am not offense with anyone. All i am sharing my thoughts that is it.Take good care. Is it not good that we should gives good ino to each other and rectify our errors. Keep posting. Asslamu alaikum wa rahamatullah.
@IQBAL as I said in my earlier post that, I like you because, you try to preach and not impose. Thats how things should be.
As for the religion issue, a borned Muslim I am firmly in the TREETOPS camp. For me there is more physical as well as logical evidence to live without a religion than to live with it. However, that doesn’t mean that we cant co-exist and live as we choose. Nobody should be persecuted for his / her beliefs and at the same time allowed to force them by decree. It is as simple as that.
Dear Mr. Kami, Assalamu alaikum wa rahamatullah, i belive you will not mind asking me few question. it is not a debate but just want to get info from yr end.First what is TREETOPS camp.I am very very interested if you tell some logical evidence. Hope you don’t mind. Let me clear as well i did asked those sort of question with my manager and with a peoples i live around.Like what was the era of Evolution, about the jesus etc etc. Please reply. I am not offense. Like it is good to know each other. Jazakallah. Iqbal
@IQBAL it is a very lengthy debate, for which this is not an appropriate forum. I will suggest that you check out the following links;
http://www.csicop.org/si/2003-11/ann-druyan.html
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/intro.html
http://www.einsteinandreligion.com/freethink.html
http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Facility/4118/misc/dawkins.html
http://www.infidels.org/library/
Assalamu alaikum wa rahamatullah, dear dear my dearest brother kami, i just read the one and now i understand unfortunately something gives you a very very wrong information. Can i have your email address if you don’t mind or if you don’t want to be disclose then just send me at kardamay@hotmail.com and put ISLAMABAD BLOGG in subject field. i really realy want to discuss. The material attract me. Can i ask which country you live it will be very hard if you say you are in pakistan. It is a good discussion we can open a new blogg. Hows that. Please contact me. MAY ALLAH SHOWS US THE RIGHT PATH. AMEEN. Iqbal
Dear Iqbal,
You are right I am currently in North America, but thats a very recent move. My education is 100% Pakistani + all my experience as a professional is Pakistani. Consequently, all my religous / non-religous and political views were formed in Pakistan, and I am very proud of that.
I am open to discussion and have noted your email, will write to you soon.