5.9

Yup I thought the quake would be of around 6.0 magnitude … it was 5.9.

For a good few seconds it shook me …. but then everything came to a still.

Looking at crises around .. I think it shook more than the mere things around.  Third January it was and I already see chaos around. Electricity and gas crisis in the country … strikes at Gaza …  Pakistan/India tension … tsunami warnings in Indonesia!

And it reminded me of 8th october again =(

I wonder why I still feel shaken … mid-night rants over!

26 Comments so far

  1. Monazza Talha (montaleast13) on January 4th, 2009 @ 1:15 pm

    Usually that time i am sleeping like a log but last night i did feel the jolts of the earthquake. I felt a little one and confirmed it from my sister too that there is a quake. Then when i felt the bigger one i jumped out of bed (in cold) and called out to my Dad as well as my sister so that we could go out of the house. But then everything calmed down in a couple of seconds. I went to being a sleepy log again.

    I just hope that this earthquake did not cause any devastation. I have yet to see the detailed news on this so i have the liberty of "hoping while not knowing".

    May Allah keep us all safe!

    -Monazza.


  2. wkhang on January 4th, 2009 @ 1:59 pm

    Monazza,

    May Allah safe all of you, Amin Summa Amin. If ya all have time to read and understand, go to this link, for sure we all will get answers, if you are not sure what and where one should go, I would recommend ya all this website, just put your question into the search and the answer will show up….

    Go go go >>>>

    http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/2593/Earthquake


  3. sceptic on January 4th, 2009 @ 5:01 pm

    Wkhang – You have provided a link to an article by Sheikh Ibn Baaz, the deceased head Imam of Kaaba, for “finding answers” to the phenomena of earthquakes. Therefore, it will be safe to assume that you subscribe to Ibn Baaz’s thoughts on earthquakes and other worldly matters. I am sure you would also be aware of the great Skeikh’s assertion not many years back that the earth is flat and the mountains act as pegs to keep the earth at its place. I hope you do not believe the Shiekh’s these assertions.

    Probably in this day and age, when human scientific knowledge has advanced to the current levels, it would be better that we argue rationally and find solutions in science and reasons. Rather then promoting ignorance, we should progress through knowledge.

    Let us look at the below definition, from Wikipedia, and compare it to what Ibn Baaz had to say:

    “In its most generic sense, the word earthquake is used to describe any seismic event—whether a natural phenomenon or an event caused by humans—that generates seismic waves. Earthquakes are caused mostly by rupture of geological faults, but also by volcanic activity, landslides, mine blasts, and nuclear experiments.”

    Ibn Baaz said: “Undoubtedly the earthquakes that are happening these days are among the signs which Allaah uses to frighten His slaves. All the earthquakes and other things which happen and cause harm and injury to people are because of shirk and sins…,”

    If one is to buy what Ibn Baaz said, it raises following questions in mind.

    1. If earthquakes are warnings for sinners only, why don’t these phenomena distinguish between good and bad people in their destructions and wrath?
    2. Why children (as it happened in Oct 2005 in Kashmir and Hazara, when several school buildings collapsed) considered innocents suffer most during earthquakes?
    3. The Indonesian province of Aceh is considered the most Islamized province of the country as they fought a two-decade long battle against Jakarta to have autonomy to have Shariah laws there. Why that province, presumably the land of true followers of Allah, bore the burnt of 2004 Tsunami?
    4. Why the earthquakes do not hit Europe, supposedly a land of people practicing shirk and sins, with the frequency and intensity that they hit countries like Japan, Indonesia, Turkey, that lies on geological fault lines?

    Earthquakes like other natural phenomena are just that – natural phenomena. Please do not try to trace spiritual reasons behind them. Ibn Baaz answers nothing.


  4. crazymonkey on January 4th, 2009 @ 8:26 pm

    Was this around fajr time? I woke up at that time and I was having an extreme anxiety attack. I did not know what the problem was. But then later that day I came to know about the earthquake.


  5. wkhang on January 4th, 2009 @ 8:56 pm

    @sceptic ,

    Your name says it all here see your self : http://www.answers.com/sceptic

    Basically you asked why Allah can’t distinguish between the bad and good, also why not earthquakes come into Europe or some where else where lots of sinners live.

    Well brother here is the answer, What Allah do its correct by all means, when child or non sinner dies into earthquake or any other disaster its not mean that Allah can’t distinguish between good and bad, when children dies into any disaster they go straight to heaven its better then the life in this world and any other people who you think are non sinners died, Allah is the greatest he have good place for them if they are good Muslim.

    Hey as per you why not earthquake come into Europe or some where else, so dear don’t worry it’s again Allah’s choice not yours or mine, if he wish to gives or shows us a right way I think its good for us.

    Science is the knowledge which man is still experiencing with it,
    If you believe that much in science than you can ask them to create a “fly” or tell them to stop earthquake, I mean they knows all how and from where these earthquake come from.

    What ever else you said against which can offend me or anyone else, I ignored you, May Allah show you the right Path (amin).

    Is it a positive reply from me or you still think that no “I will keep my self sceptic” ?

    Peace


  6. ڈفرستان کا ڈفر (duffer) on January 5th, 2009 @ 10:40 am

    point one difference is negligible
    should we wait for the new nick "R for [Rector Scale]" ? :D
    ___________________
    http://www.dufferistan.com


  7. sceptic on January 5th, 2009 @ 5:11 pm

    Surprise, surprise, Wkhang, I knew the meanings of ‘sceptic” before I chose it. In fact, that’s why I chose it.

    Human mind has progressed to the stage where earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, storms and many other natural phenomena can be predicted, in some case, controlled and their destruction mitigated. This progress is evident from facts, not based on an untested belief.

    If you want to keep on believing in fairytales, I have got another one for you – perhaps more plausible one at that to explain earthquakes. Actually, there is a huge bull that’s standing underneath the earth to carry the weight of the planet on its two horns. When it swaps the weight from one horn to the other, the earth shakes. How’s that.

    Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy has analyzed the state of affairs in relation to science among the Muslim countries well. Here is one of his articles on the subject.

    http://ptonline.aip.org/journals/doc/PHTOAD-ft/vol_60/iss_8/49_1.shtml

    His book, Muslims and Science, available at big stores in Super and Jinnah Super, is even better read, if anyone’s interested.


  8. wkhang on January 5th, 2009 @ 9:19 pm

    Sir,

    Those are not fairytales, and I do undertand what you said into your last comment on the earthquake that it comes due to natural or man created blasts so forth…

    Here is some other realities not fairytales okay : ),

    Science told us that Earth is Round?

    Quran told us 1400 years ago that world is not in round shape.

    Science told us that the moon has its own light?

    Quran told us 1400 years ago that Moon reflects the Sunlight.

    I can go on and on and on……

    So brother science is a knowledge which can be wrong but Quran is the Allah’s words it could never be wrong and your story dies here …. Dude we all know possibly there are some plates underneath the earth which moves, that’s how earthquake comes, for a minute lets say okay, tell me one thing who tells them to move ?

    Quran told us 1400 years back that moon was split into two, now your science is telling us yes it did split into two here view the picture yourself : http://www.flickr.com/photos/72726964@N00/304727677/

    Who created this world Science or Allah?

    Allah Created this world for sure here is the link of Quran Words that how he explains about the rain, wind, mountains, sea, night & days etc, this link for sure will satisfied you:
    http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/4548/Creation%20of%20the%20Mountains

    A book entitled "Earth" is considered a basic reference text in many universities around the world. One of the authors of this book is Frank Press. He is currently the President of the Academy of Sciences in the USA. Previously, he was the science advisor to former USA President Jimmy Carter. His book says that mountains have underlying roots
    [p. 435]
    . These roots are deeply embedded in the ground. So mountains have a shape like a peg as is seen in an example on page 220 in the same book. Another illustration shows how the mountains are peg-like in shape, due to their deep roots
    [p. 158]
    .

    This is how the Quran described mountains. God said in the Quran:

    Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs?
    [Noble Quran 78:6-7]

    Modern earth sciences have proven that mountains have deep roots under the surface of the ground and that these roots can reach several times their elevations above the surface of the ground. So the suitable word to describe mountains on the basis of this information is the word ‘peg’, since most of a properly set peg is hidden under the surface of the ground. The history of science tells us that the theory of mountains having deep roots was introduced only in the latter half of the nineteenth century.
    [Geological Concept of Mountains p.5]

    Mountains also play an important role in stabilizing the crust of the earth.
    [Geological Concept of Mountains pp. 44-45]
    . They hinder the shaking of the earth. God said in the Quran:

    And He has set firm mountains in the earth so that it would not shake with you…
    [Noble Quran 16:15]

    Likewise the modern theory of plate tectonics holds that mountains work as stabilizers for the earth. This knowledge about the role of mountains as stabilizers for the earth has just begun to be understood in the framework of plate tectonics since the late 1960’s
    [Geological Concept of Mountains p. 5]

    Could anyone during the time of the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) have known of the true shape of mountains? Could any one imagine that the solid massive mountain which he sees before him, actually extends deep into the earth and has a root, as scientists assert? A large number of books of geology when discussing mountains, only describe that part which is above the surface of the earth. This is because these books were not written by specialists in geology. However, modern geology has confirmed the truth of the Quran’s verses.

    So if you want a peace into your heart and mind come towards a peace…

    Allah Bless you (amin).

    http://air16.blogspot.com/


  9. kabirdas on January 6th, 2009 @ 12:40 am

    Sceptic:
    I agree with each and every word that you have written on this subject. And my agreement with you is not the result of visiting some websites on the internet. It is the result of full ten years of study of books, 8 hours a day, about what has been discovered by science and where do the religions stand.
    However, I think you are wasting your time and breath. Ignorance is a great bliss. Let people who want to live in a state of such a bliss may continue to do so. What has been drummed into ones ears since one is born is very difficult to take out. The damage thus done to the brain is permanent or almost permanent.


  10. wkhang on January 6th, 2009 @ 3:59 pm

    Mr. Das, (MY. FRIEND,

    Can I suggest you a book of "Quran" to read with translation, thats very interesting for me that you spent 10 years on different books every day 8 hours,

    I SALUTE YOU !!!

    You are now more respectable person for me : ), I do not mind a single thing what you have said into your comments.

    Those websites are Quranic & Science from BOOKS, so here is a link for you a book in electronic, http://www.islamicfinder.org/quran/quran.php

    Now this website have 7 to 8 different languages, you can hear and read or description, its very comfortable for readres, the whole Quran is available in that link.

    So lets not go into Who is born where and who’s drummed and who’s not : ), LETS COME TO COMMON POINTS.

    Peace


  11. kabirdas on January 6th, 2009 @ 8:53 pm

    Wkhang, of course my friend with a golden heart.

    Your suggestion is not a new one for me. Some time back I had a group of people from Tableeghi Jamat to visit me. After hearing me one of them while looking at the shelves of my library said that my problem was that I had read too many books and that I should read just one book to understand things. I got up and picked up three different translations of Quran and putting them on the table said that here is the book you have in mind and let me tell you that I started off with this very book and read it many times. And read it in a language which I understand. It was to understand this book that I resorted to reading other books which you see in my library. Now what I am telling you is the result of my extensive research and reading to understand this book.

    It was not an easy path that I followed and would not recommend to every one. However, I do recommend to others what Gallileo had once said: "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use."

    I have also visited many so called iSLAMIC websites. Please bear in mind that these websites have not been written by authoritative people. Most of what they write in the context of science is all mumbo jumbo. They are not much of an authority on Islam and certainly have no understanding of the science they discuss.

    In any case I will visit the site recommended by you for a laugh. By the way I have done most of my reading about science subjects and comparatively little about religion. Whatever little I have studied about religion is more than enough to understand it and practice it sensibly.

    I didn’t say anything about who is borne where. However, you may replace ‘one’ with ‘we’ in the sentence about drumming of the religion into our ears. I am included in this ‘we’. The only thing is that my inquisitive nature was so strong that I rebeled and refused to accept what did not make sense or didn’t stand to reason. I tried to reason out things for a better understanding and practice of religion.

    Please let me know what are the common points and I will come to them provided you come to them with an open mind.

    The power will soon go off. I must beg your leave now. I might get in touch with you again on this very subject.


  12. wkhang on January 7th, 2009 @ 3:45 am

    Here are some questions I would like to ask from you even I know that you do not believe in Allah but still I insist to answer me:

    1: Do you believe that some one created the Airplane, Telephone, TV, Trains and Books?
    And they have names, Yep? And also they have created a log book of each thing they have made or developed so people can later on can resolve issues or errors. (Very easy examples : ))

    2: Just like this you must believe in Allah the only creator of this world, so if you start believing in Allah (I pray you will soon, amin), after this you should believe in Quran which you can say it’s a log book or manual of the whole world, it tells us all about the world and its errors or issues.

    3: Now one will ask how this book came on earth and who brought this so here is the third step that one should know about the Man Mohammad PBUH, he was the last prophet on the earth which sent by Allah as his messenger and the Holy Book Quran reveled on him.

    So here are few of top level educated people talked about Mohammad PBUH
    You may be an atheist or an agnostic; or you may belong to any of the religious denominations that exist in the world today. You may be a communist or a believer in democracy and freedom. No matter what you are, and no matter what your ideological and political beliefs, personal and social habits happen to be – you must still know this man.

    ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA confirms:
    "….a mass of detail in the early sources show that he was an honest and upright man who had gained the respect and loyalty of others who were like-wise honest and upright men." (Vol. 12)

    GEORGE BERNARD SHAW said about him:
    "He must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it much needed peace and happiness." (THE GENUINE ISLAM, Singapore, Vol. 1, No. 8, 1936)
    He was by far the most remarkable man that ever set foot on this earth. He preached a religion, founded a state, built a nation, laid down a moral code, initiated numerous social and political reforms, established a powerful and dynamic society to practice and represent his teachings and completely revolutionized the worlds of human thought and behavior for all times to come.

    "HIS NAME IS MUHAMMAD" May Peace of God Be Upon Him (pbuh)
    He was born in Arabia in the year 570 C.E. (common era), started his mission of preaching the religion of Truth, Islam (submission to One God) at the age of forty and departed from this world at the age of sixty-three.

    During this short period of 23 years of his Prophethood, he changed the complete Arabian peninsula from paganism and idolatry to worship of One God, from tribal quarrels and wars to national solidarity and cohesion, from drunkenness and debauchery to sobriety and piety, from lawlessness and anarchy to disciplined living, from utter bankruptcy to the highest standards of moral excellence. Human history has never known such a complete transformation of a people or a place before or since – and IMAGINE all these unbelievable wonders in JUST OVER TWO DECADES.

    Lamartine, the renowned historian speaking on the essentials of human greatness wonders:
    "If greatness of purpose, smallness of means and astounding results are the three criteria of human genius, who could dare to compare any great man in modern history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms, laws and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This man moved not only armies, legislation, empires, peoples and dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then inhabited world; and more than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and souls….his forbearance in victory, his ambition, which was entirely devoted to one idea and in no manner striving for an empire; his endless prayers, his mystic conversations with God, his death and his triumph after death; all these attest not to an imposture but to a firm conviction which gave him the power to restore a dogma. This dogma was two-fold, the unity of God and the immateriality of God; the former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not; the one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea with the words.
    "Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images, the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is MUHAMMAD. As regards all the standards by which Human Greatness may be measured, we may well ask, IS THERE ANY MAN GREATER THAN HE?" (Lamartine, HISTOIRE DE LA TURQUIE, Paris, 1854, Vol. II, pp 276-277)
    The world has had its share of great personalities. But these were one-sided figures who distinguished themselves in but one or two fields, such as religious thought or military leadership. The lives and teachings of these great personalities of the world are shrouded in the mist of time.
    There is so much speculation about the time and place of their birth, the mode and style of their life, the nature and detail of their teachings and the degree and measure of their success or failure that it is impossible for humanity to reconstruct accurately the lives and teachings of these men.
    Not so this man. Muhammad (pbuh) accomplished so much in such diverse fields of human thought and behavior in the fullest blaze of human history. Every detail of his private life and public utterances has been accurately documented and faithfully preserved to our day. The authenticity of the record so preserved are vouched for not only by the faithful followers but even by his prejudiced critics.
    Muhammad (pbuh) was a religious teacher, a social reformer, a moral guide, an administrative colossus, a faithful friend, a wonderful companion, a devoted husband, a loving father – all in one. No other man in history ever excelled or equaled him in any of these different aspects of life – but it was only for the selfless personality of Muhammad (pbuh) to achieve such incredible perfections.

    MAHATMA GANDHI, speaking on the character of Muhammad, (pbuh) says in YOUNG INDIA:
    "I wanted to know the best of one who holds today’s undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind….I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to this friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission.
    These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet’s biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life."

    THOMAS CALYLE in his HEROES AND HERO WORSHIP, was simply amazed as to:
    "how one man single-handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering Bedouins into a most powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades."

    DIWAN CHAND SHARMA wrote:
    "Muhammad was the soul of kindness, and his influence was felt and never forgotten by those around him." (D.C. Sharma, THE PROPHETS OF THE EAST, Calcutta, 1935, pp. 12)

    EDWARD GIBBON and SIMON OCKLEY speaking on the profession of ISLAM write:
    "’I BELIEVE IN ONE GOD, AND MAHOMET, AN APOSTLE OF GOD’ is the simple and invariable profession of Islam. The intellectual image of the Deity has never been degraded by any visible idol; the honor of the Prophet has never transgressed the measure of human virtues; and his living precepts have restrained the gratitude of his disciples within the bounds of reason and religion." (HISTORY OF THE SARACEN EMPIRES, London, 1870, p. 54)

    Muhammad (pbuh) was nothing more or less than a human being. But he was a man with a noble mission, which was to unite humanity on the worship of ONE and ONLY ONE GOD and to teach them the way to honest and upright living based on the commands of God. He always described himself as, ‘A Servant and Messenger of God,’ and so indeed every action of his proclaimed to be.

    Speaking on the aspect of equality before God in Islam, the famous poetess of India, SAROJINI NAIDU says:
    "It was the first religion that preached and practiced democracy; for, in the mosque, when the call for prayer is sounded and worshippers are gathered together, the democracy of Islam is embodied five times a day when the peasant and king kneel side by side and proclaim: ‘God Alone is Great’… I have been struck over and over again by this indivisible unity of Islam that makes man instinctively a brother." (S. Naidu, IDEALS OF ISLAM, vide Speeches & Writings, Madras, 1918, p. 169)

    In the words of PROF. HURGRONJE:
    "The league of nations founded by the prophet of Islam put the principle of international unity and human brotherhood on such universal foundations as to show candle to other nations." He continues: "The fact is that no nation of the world can show a parallel to what Islam has done towards the realization of the idea of the League of Nations."
    The world has not hesitated to raise to divinity, individuals whose lives and missions have been lost in legend. Historically speaking, none of these legends achieved even a fraction of what Muhammad (pbuh) accomplished. And all his striving was for the sole purpose of uniting mankind for the worship of One God on the codes of moral excellence. Muhammad (pbuh) or his followers never at any time claimed that he was a Son of God or the God-incarnate or a man with divinity – but he always was and is even today considered as only a Messenger chosen by God.

    MICHAEL H. HART in his recently published book on ratings of men who contributed towards the benefit and upliftment of mankind writes:
    "My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world’s most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular levels." (M.H. Hart, THE 100: A RANKING OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL PERSONS IN HISTORY, New York, 1978, p. 33)

    K. S. RAMAKRISHNA RAO, an Indian Professor of Philosophy in his booklet, "Muhammad, The Prophet of Islam," calls him the "PERFECT MODEL FOR HUMAN LIFE." Prof. Ramakrishna Rao explains his point by saying:
    "The personality of Muhammad, it is most difficult to get into the whole truth of it. Only a glimpse of it I can catch. What a dramatic succession of picturesque scenes! There is Muhammad, the Prophet. There is Muhammad, the Warrior; Muhammad, the Businessman; Muhammad, the Statesman; Muhammad, the Orator; Muhammad, the Reformer; Muhammad, the Refuge of Orphans; Muhammad, the Protector of Slaves; Muhammad, the Emancipator of Women; Muhammad, the Judge; Muhammad, the Saint. All in all these magnificent roles, in all these departments of human activities, he is alike a hero."

    Today after a lapse of fourteen centuries, the life and teachings of MUHAMMAD (pbuh) have survived without the slightest loss, alteration or interpolation. They offer the same undying hope for treating mankind’s many ills, which they did when he was alive. This is not a claim of Muhammad’s (pbuh) followers but also the inescapable conclusion forced upon by a critical and unbiased history.

    The least YOU could do as a thinking and concerned human being is to stop for a moment and ask yourself: Could these statements sounding so extraordinary and revolutionary be really true? And supposing they really are true and you did not know this man MUHAMMAD (pbuh) or hear about him, isn’t it time you responded to this tremendous challenge and put in some effort to know him?
    It will cost you nothing but it may prove to be the beginning of a completely new era in your life.
    We invite you to make a discovery of this wonderful man, Muhammad (pbuh), the like of whom never walked on the face of this earth
    etc

    The list can go on and on but I should stop here and move to next step

    Allah’s Messenger to the Whole Mankind
    Prophet Muhammad (r) (Salallahu ‘alayhi wa salam, meaning: May the peace and blessings of Allah I be upon him) was Allâh’s great Prophet and Messenger like Jesus, the Son of Mary. The Prophet’s mission, however, is universal. Allâh (I) (Subhanahu wa ta’ala, meaning: the Exalted, Most Glorious) tells mankind that Prophet Muhammad (r) is no more than a Messenger.

    So his message is that “we should fallow what he told us about Allah and his book Quran and spend our life just like Mohammad PBUH spent it”
    A Guidance to Follow
    Muhammad as a man had already died, but as a Prophet he left behind him a legacy in the form of the Qur’an and the Sunnah. He stressed the urgent need to hold firmly to these two sources during his Farewell speech in the valley of Arafat. If people hold fast to them, they will never go astray

    In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate

    The Hour has approached, and the moon split. But whenever they see a sign, they turn away and say, ‘This is evident magic.’

    The miracle of the splitting of the moon was demonstrated before a certain gathering who persisted in denial of Muhammad’s Prophethood. As was related by ‘Adbullah ibn Mas‘ud, while they were in Mina’ one night, the Prophet split the moon into two by a gesture of his index finger. The halves of the moon appeared one behind the mountain and the other in front of it. Then, the Prophet turned to us and said: ‘Be witnesses!’1

    The Qur’an refers to this miracle in the following verses:
    The Hour has approached, and the moon split. But whenever they see a sign, they turn away and say, ‘This is evident magic’. (al-Qamar, 54.1-2

    At Last just tell me do you believe in this or not? after this I will finish my talk and will answer you only with one or two sentences??

    I quote your second last paragraph
    "In any case I will visit the site recommended by you for a laugh. By the way I have done most of my reading about science subjects and comparatively little about religion. Whatever little I have studied about religion is more than enough to understand it and practice it sensibly".

    Now you do not have to visit that site which I recommended, because you are going to laugh at it, which will be very strange act by you, because as per you, you said that you are a serious reader then how come you laugh ?, also as per you, you have done most of your reading about science subjects and little abuot religion, this is the mistake you have done my dear, you should be balanced in the reading or education so you can maintain a balance in the life.

    May Allah be peace with you Amin

    Yours Friend WK


  13. sceptic on January 7th, 2009 @ 8:35 pm

    Wkhang – You are trying to portray a religious scripture as a scientific or geological manual, perhaps as textbook for Geology-101. Many staunch believer would akin it to the sacrilege of a spiritual scripture. When you are making this forum to believe the Quran as an ultimate guidebook on non-spiritual matters, you need to have a stomach to digest any logical critique that may come to it as scientific knowledge has to be tested and retested. From your comments, I doubt you would have that much open-mindedness and tolerance for such criticism. While I do not want to do that, anyone can throw twice any many quotes against your arguments than you have provided.

    I will stick to the bull theory as the truest explanation for earthquakes.


  14. wkhang on January 7th, 2009 @ 9:44 pm

    @ Sceptic,

    Fine with me, you can stick with that bull story : )… I have made my point clear enough and satisfied as well.

    End of conversation with you.


  15. kabirdas on January 7th, 2009 @ 11:06 pm

    @ sceptic on January 7th, 2009

    Sir, you are truely a sceptic. According to our religious scholors (Ulma-e-Karam and why add Karam after Ulma that I have never understood) Quran is not only good enough for Geology 101 course but for all other advnce courses in many subjects. To devise these courses you must consult following Ayyats and Suras of Quran.

    (quran. chapter 6: verse 133) The evolution of species,
    (7:40) Black hole singularity,
    (7:54)The sequence of day and night,
    (10:5)Natural and reflected light,
    (10:5)The speed of light,
    (10:24) Time zones – earth rotation,
    (10:34)Genetic code reproduction,
    (10:61) Subatomic particles,
    (3:2) Gravitational forces
    (16:68-69) Cure of honey
    (21:33) The spherical earth
    (21:33) Orbital movement of celestial bodies
    (21:33) The sun – rotation and revolution
    (22:73) The fly
    (23:12-14) Human embryonic development
    (23:112,113) Relativity in the Qur’an
    (24:35) Nuclear reactions in stars
    (24:40) Deep sea currents
    (24:40) Darkness in a deep sea
    (24:43) The Qur’an on clouds
    (24:43) Hail and lightning
    (25:53) Barriers between the seas and rivers
    (25:54) The creation from water
    (27:88) Earth’s movement in space
    (29:41) The thread of the spider
    (30:30) No change in genetic code
    (30:48) The water cycle
    (31:29) The rounded shape of the earth
    (32:7) Clay: the beginning of humankind
    (34:3) Atomic weight
    (34:9) Stones from the sky
    (36:38) The apex of our solar system
    (36:39) The phases of the moon
    (36:39) The moon’s orbit
    (36:40) The fixed way of earth’s rotation
    (39:5) The spinning of the earth
    (39:6) Layers of the womb
    (39:68) Black holes
    (41:10) How old is the earth?
    (41:11) The gaseous universe
    (41:12) The cosmic constants
    (41:53) Horizons
    (42:29) Life on other planets
    (46:15) The full maturity of man
    (47:15) Thermal receptors in bowels
    (51:47) The expansion of the universe
    (51:47) The evolution of universe
    (53:45,46) Embryonic sex determination
    (53:45,47) Pairs of everything
    (55:33) The conquest of space
    (55:37) The new reddening of the cosmos
    (56:75,76) The position of stars
    (57:25) Formation of iron (heavy elements)!
    (70:4) The age of the universe
    (70:4) The speed of time
    (71:14) Creation in stages
    (75:4) Fingerprints
    (76:2) Fertilization liquid
    (77:7,8) The death of stars
    (78:6,7) Stabilizing mountains
    (81:1) The collapse of the sun
    (84:16) The sun’s afterglow
    (86:1,2,3) Knocking stars – pulsars
    (86:11) Heaven’ss returning capacity
    (89:1,3) The even and the odd
    (91:1) The importance of sunlight
    (92:1) Why the universe is dark?
    (95:15,16) The quran on the cerebrum
    (99:2) Reversal of gravity

    Now you would have never thought the Quran was a book of science as well. Would you? No! Because you are a sceptic. If you were a true believer you would have never felt the need to study these subjects in your school or college. Going to a madrassa would have sufficed like it does for most of our Ulma-e-KARAM and would have saved you lot of unnecessary hard work and hassle.

    It is still time for you to become a true beliver otherwise you run the risk of meeting the kind of fate Galileo met at the hands of the Church and made to say something like he was made to say as follows:

    "I, Galileo, son of the late Vincenzo Galilei of Florence, being 70 years old… swear that I have always believed, believe now and, with God’s help, will in the future believe all that the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church doth hold, preach and teach. But since, after having been admonished by this Holy Office entirely to abandon the false opinion that the sun is the center of the Universe and immovable, and that the Earth is not the center of the same and that it moves. That I was neither to hold, defend, nor teach in any manner whatsoever, either orally or in writing, the said false doctrine".

    By the way you may find it amusing that after having said all this Galileo turned his head to one side and whispered: "But it still moves." This was fortunaely heard only by her daughter.

    Take care and I mean it.


  16. kabirdas on January 7th, 2009 @ 11:21 pm

    With ref to my above comments please don’t aske me if it is so then how come we are not ahead of the west in scientific field particulary when most of us read Quran regularly. I don’t have an answer to this question. This question you can put to some Ulma-e-KARAM. I once asked this question and was told that it is because our IMAN is not PUKHTA. I did not say what would have been the result if our Iman was more pukhta than this. However, I agreed with him that indeed our Iman is so weak that we don’t even have a single invention to our name—-not even something like a tin opener.


  17. kabirdas on January 8th, 2009 @ 12:22 am

    Sceptic and wkhang:

    I am down with flu, have guests in the house, power failure has suddenly become more frequent and then I am also thinking of sending a rejoinder , of all the people, to Dr A Q khan in response to his article which appeared in today’s The News titled ‘In pursuit of knowledge’. It seems Dr Sahab is also suffering from some touch of religion these days though I don’t blame him for it cosidering what he is going through. I very politely want to draw his attention to some erraneous statements that he has made in this article regarding Islam and science.

    However, I still can’t resist the temptation of leting you guys know more about my views about the subject that we are discussing here. For this I am appending below one of my emails which recently I sent to one of my friends on this very subject. I am with holding the names of my friends mentioned in the original email.

    Dear —-:
    Good to know you are back from the land of the infidels. I am sure you must have heaved a sigh of relief after getting back to the land of the pures.

    Thanks for your referenced email about the miracles of Quran which you seem to have forwarded so promptly to all your contacts in compliance with its instruction. I may be wrong but I would not be surprised if you forwarded this email with your tongue in cheak. Anyway it is prudent to be on the safe side and go along with such things and take such actions which may earn one bit of SWAB with the few clicks of the mouse.

    My reaction to such discoveries continues to be the same as ever before. First I laugh and then I cry for reasons which need no further explanation or elaboration. My laugh is momentry but crying long lasting.
    Sometime back there was another miracle of Quran in great circulation. It was some magic number like 19 or 9 to which various Parts, Suras and Verses of Quran add up to etc. etc. It was also something which made me laugh and cry at the same time.

    Recently your old friend —— forwarded me an email which had referred to various verses of Quran and what they meant in regard to ethics, morals manners and human rights etc. In this case after laughing and crying I opened up two different translations of Quran to show that these Verses did not mean anything like it had been claimed by any stretch of imagination. —- who had been so impressed by this email felt so embarassed ( first time saw —– feeling embarrased) after seeing my observation that he sent a srong message to the sender of this email who happened to be a Lt. General.

    There is another email which I received few months back, the type which makes me laugh and cry. This email is attached to further strengthen your belief in the miracles of Quran. This makes me wonder how come we Muslims are so backward in Science when all the science is in Quran which we read day and night?

    In addition to this I can refer to you some Islamic websites which make inter alia such claims as the speed of light to 6 decimal places of its modern value is given in Quran. And they show some elaborate mathematical calculations based on certain verses relating to the the speed of angels to prove it. And then there is Muslim website which starts of with E=mc*2=Shirk. Muslims seem to be confused like me like I some time do not know whether to laugh or cry. So I do both.

    I am prepared to accept that all modern science is there in Quran provided some body can answer my simple question which nags me to no end; how come then Muslims are so backward in all the fields of Science? But are we? No, Mr. Harun Yahya whose dozen of books are avaible in our book stores has inter alia this to say on page 72 of his book THE QURAN LEADS THE WAY TO SCIENCE:

    "Al Kindi (Alkindus) introduced relative physics and the theory of relativity some 1100 years prior to Einstein."

    "Thabit ibn Qurrah (Thebit), who lived in the 9th century, invented differential calculus centuries before Newton."

    "Battani, a 10th century scientist is the first developer of trigonometry."

    Let us carry on the way we are blowing our trumpet. Let the West laugh at us. One day we will show them more clearly what we are and what we want to achieve once we have a true Islamic Republic of our own. We almost had one in Afghanistan but they did not let it last. They are so jealous of us. Till then let us study Quran in greater detail to discover its miracles.

    Regards


  18. kabirdas on January 8th, 2009 @ 12:47 am

    @ wkhang on January 7th, 2009

    For reasons mentioned above please forgive me to respond to your referenced questions later. Right know I can assure you that I was borne in a sunni Muslim family. My passport also shows me to be a Muslim although I did not like it to be shown as such for two reasons:
    a. I don’t like wearing my religion on my sleeve.
    b. To prove myself to be a Muslim I did not like to say anything adverse about other people’s beliefs in my passport form which I had to do to avoid lot of hassle.

    Anyway I will respond to your questions as soon as I feel bit better and have more time at my disposable. In the mean time you may read my above comments whatever they are worth.

    In the end let me say that I hope my friend has not only a golden heart but is also blessed by Allah with an open mind.

    Take care and take it easy.


  19. sceptic on January 8th, 2009 @ 6:27 am

    Dear Kabirdas – You have posed a very interesting question: If we have all scientific and worldly knowledge squeezed in a single book, why over a billion followers (and millions more before them) of that book could not use that guide to invent even a tin-opener?

    I believe that not a single follower of the Quran has, or ever had, his/her Iman Pukhta enough to able to decipher the hidden scientific clues all over. On the other hand, men and women who do not profess any faith in the all encompassing “scientific” book and have no claims on having any Iman, pukhta or napukhta, keep on conquering the field of science as no other could do.

    I don’t expect mullah to do think this but seeming educated commentators at this forum must do so: How long can we go on blaming the students for being retards (napukhta Iman) who are unable to acquire/copy the knowledge from the revealed source for the failure of a good chunk of mankind? Perhaps, it is time to question the effectiveness of the textbook and the school the students have to endure? Otherwise, unquestioning minds would keep on believing in cock and bull stories to their own (and others’) detriment.


  20. wkhang on January 8th, 2009 @ 11:52 am

    Mr. Kabir,
    Get Well Soon : )

    You have DAZZLE me enough !!!!

    Now I do not required any answer from you. I finish my conversation with few words, I pray for you to have solid belief and May Allah give you the strength to have it and hold it (AMIN).

    Your laugh and tears remind me when I offered Umra the first time when I saw the Khana Kaba and the loud sound of people who were praying and saying " Allah Humma Labik " I kind of smile at that moment and was thinking that " Wah meray Allah kia shan hay tery " after that in few minutes I was shivering.

    Before umra my life was peace of shit ( may Allah forgive me, amin), I use to go night clubs, drinking …..etc, but after that Allah showed me a way towards the right path, BUT on my will, I did pray to Allah to show me the right path so he did and now I am still trying to get on the road.

    Where there’s a will there’s a way : )

    Hey get some tea with honey ; )

    Cheers


  21. kabirdas on January 8th, 2009 @ 9:13 pm

    @ wkhang on January 8th, 2009

    Thank you for wishing me get well. Tea with honey and such other totkas do not work with me. The thing that really helps me is bit of brandy with or without anything. Even if it does not cure the flu at least it makes me feel good. So good that sometime one feels like having the flu for longer period to enjoy its treatment with brandy. This treatment is so good that despite the misery of the flu you feel for a change that IT IS BETTER TO BE ALIVE THAN DEAD :-)

    You will find that after having being in the dark for a long period one finds a little light bit too dazzling and thus uncomfortable :-)

    By the way I had not yet come to the real issue yet. So far I was just trying to give you an idea what are we really up against.


  22. wkhang on January 8th, 2009 @ 10:52 pm

    Enjoy your Brandy, I will not bother you in this situation for really you need this kind of dose, you are most welcome to the real issue.

    BRING IT ON….

    Respectfully,

    WK


  23. kabirdas on January 9th, 2009 @ 12:35 am

    @ wkhang on January 8th, 2009

    You are a pal! I was not drinking brandy. I was sober like a judge (not a PCO judge)I was just pulling you leg. It is not that I wouldn’t have gulped it if I had some handy. Unfortunatley I found my bootlegger had closed down his operation for two days on acount of Ashura.
    I will BRING IT ON as soon as I feel bit better as desired by you.
    Take care.


  24. wkhang on January 9th, 2009 @ 12:48 am

    thats okay, no big deal, at the Karachi Meblog I just post the link about Vena Milk,,,,, lolzzzz


  25. kabirdas on January 14th, 2009 @ 9:12 pm

    @ wkhang on January 7th, 2009

    Earlier when I read your comments I was so overwhelmed by their length that I put off my response and decided to revert back to them when I will have more time to do so. In the mean time I got busy with many other things and almost forgot about them. Sorry, for my forgetfulness. Here is my response to your comments.

    Today after rereading the comments bit more carefully I find that whereas your comments are indeed lengthy they lack the breadth and depth which such a topic deserved. You have tried to compress huge amount of words in some small ideas. Any way I will try to be as brief as possible.

    I wonder how do you know whether I have faith in Allah or not ? Anyway, I agree with Bertrand Russells when he says in ‘Human Society In Eithics and Plitics’: " We may define faith as a firm belief in something for which there is no evidence. Where there is no evidence, no one speaks of ‘faith’. We do not speak of faith that two and two are four or that the earth is round. We only speak of faith when we wish to substitute emotions for evidence."
    In this instance I would say as a matter of fact that the existence of God has neither been proved nor disproved. On the basis of this statement you may call me what you will. By the way I was borne in a sunni Muslim family if you have any doubt on account of that.

    Now my answer to your specific question is as follows:

    Q 1: My answer is in affirmative.

    Q 2. It is not a question. It is not even a statement. It is a sermon. Now how do you expect me to answer it. Kindly rephrase your question for me to answer it meaningfully.

    Q 3. Again it is not a question but a statemnet. However, whatever you have quoted about prophet Muhammad (PBUH) I fully agree with it. I love, respect and revere him from the bottom of my heart. I have read great many biogaphies and autobiographies of some of the greast men of this world. I consider prophet Muhammad (PBUH) the greatest of them all for reasons which I do not consider necessary to expound here. However, let me add here that I still feel he was an ordinary BASHAR like us. He was not made of any NOOR or something like that. He did cast a shadow when obstructing light. No cloud hovered over him to protect him from the heat of the sun etc etc. To believe in such things is tentamount to belittleing his stature and achievement as a human being.

    The ball is now in your court. Play it in any manner you would like to play.


  26. wkhang on January 15th, 2009 @ 1:56 am

    The message was delivered by me and taken by Mr. Kabir with lots of respect, sense and replied with logic and deep of your heart.

    You have pulled out the truth from your heart and used it nicely. I do not have anything to say over here so lets kick out the ball out of the ground and sit drink Coffee : ).

    Peace



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