The Siege of Lal Masjid: Day 5 of Operation Silence
LiveBlog documenting Day 5 of the crack down on Lal Masjid in Islamabad. Keep posting your Comments. You can read another of our earlier posts about Operation Silence (Days 1-3, and Day 4), outside Lal Masjid!
July 8th 09:35 AM
A RELAXATION IN CURFEW IN G-6 WILL BEING AT 10 AM AND LAST ATLEAST 2 HOURS. Half an hour from now, G-6 will be open for outsiders and insiders access. The area around Lal Masjid however remains cordoned off to a greater extent.
Last night a lot of news came in. A leading figure in the operation passed away in the hospital. More headway was made on the southern side of Jamia Hafsa. Three loud explosions were heard as far as Rawalpindi. Unconfirmed reports claim that the operations today and yesterday have caused 250 to 300 militants’ death. There is a greater number of students inside than that which is being reported. Six escaping militants have been caught by the forces securing the parameter outside.
July 8th 06:15 AM
The news channels are now full of talk of a the death of Lt. Col Haroon ul Islam, but there is a lot of misinformation with it too. Shaheed Haroon was severely injured on Friday after, and airlifted to CMH that very moment. He did not die in today’s action. His struggling self was in the hospital for that past days and undergoing treatment and a series operations. He lost the battle with death on the operating table and embraced Shahadat.
No wonder Special Services Group’s lads are considered the bravest in the country. The details of his death were revealed by an ISPR spokesperson who say that he and another of his team mate were covering a hole in the wall of Lal Masjid from where women and children were rushing out. They were fired upon and got taken down. They were rushed back into the lines where a chopper airlifted them Central Military Hospital. Read more about the nations brave SSG commandoes here.
This however is just a reference photo of how a proper SSG commando looks like.
July 8th 04:50 AM
In a major off-scene development, there is a confirmation from the military personnel that,
The heavy firing late Sunday night caused great damage to a large area of Jamia Hafsa; the SSG Commander Haroon Islam, who led the operation on Friday operation, lost his life late Sunday night.
The Jamia Hafsa inmates remain defiant, as there are fresh reports that there are a lot more of them in the basement of the mosque. While sporadic firing has taken place from time to time during this night, the sad news of the passing away of SSG Commander Leut. Col. Haroon Islam who was leading the Special Forces conducting Lal Masjid operation in CMH has gripped all of us with shock. Leut. Colonel is quite a high rank! According to reports, he was injured on Friday and airlifted immediately there after to CMH. There has also been a major advancement on the southern side of Jamia Hafsa.
The weather in Islamabad has taken a turn for the worse as thunder storms and rain continue since late yesterday night. An urban theater full of vegetation, accompanied by bad weather makes for one of the worse kinds of places to be, fighting for your lives, in. Lets raise our hands for a dua for the shuhadaa!
Aye Wataan Kay Shaheedo, Tumhain Salam! This however some unknow soldier with an M-4 Grenade launcher in civies.
July 8th 01:50 AM
Abdul Aziz while talking to ARYOne World news reporter over a mobile phone said,
We are being targeted, and we are not firing back.
We are low on food and our mobile battery life is ending.
Musharraf will be caught one day and I will grab his collar and ask him why he was so brutal with us.
There is no good estimate of how many have died.
I want to have an ‘open trial’ (he meant transparent… yeah right!) for the world to see and I will prove my innocence. If we are not able to do that, we should be hanged.
We are innocent and we will die if it the need arises.
All of the students inside are willing to die with me.
We do not want to bend over in front of anyone, as Chaudary Shujaat offered us to do earlier today. An inquiry should be started…
The firing continues, but the explosions have ended. The explosions have resulted in a fire. The area has dense vegetation.
July 8th 01:20 AM
Three massive explosions in the curfew zone on the Lal Masjid have been head as far as G-10! The fire and the fighting has restarted, just about 10 minutes ago!
As it seems, the inmates of Lal Masjid come out, start firing from inside the walls and the military replies with guns and shells… but these were three very loud explosions with equal time intervals, and one can only pray to God for the safety of human life! Good God, we need some sensibility to this! :(
July 8th 12:20 AM
The firing has ended, and all is quite now, but the question remains… where are the fricking choppers? The pictures that were posted earlier showed us that there was alot of vegetation around the campus. It would be wise to have choppers on a 24/7 recon over the building. But I think there is a fear of Lal Masjid having shoulder launched surface to air missiles (SAM) inside the building. The famous Stinger! If not that then fuel cost of their flight might be one major concern. Bleh! Just get it over with quick, damn it!
July 8th 12:10 AM
Residents of F-6 are reporting they heard 6 explosions and the last one being quite loud. These sounds are going to drive us all crazy :@
Related posts:
Please please please I keep reminding you guys..stop fantasizing about a “hollywood” operation. This is a serious matter.
Just heard loud bangs … they were way too loud
God!!!
I’m in F-7 and the explosions are getting huge.
Thanks for the reminder, but WE LIVE HERE! We are sick of it all…!
I wonder if at my place they were so loud, G-6 must have gone nuts over them …!
geo showing live video of these too …!
It has quietened down now.
May Allah save all innocent students being held there
Abdul Aziz on the phone? I thought he was caught. Do you mean Ghazi?
I’m in G-10 couldn’t figure out if they are clouds or explosions.
Maulana Ghazi was talking to ARY, senior one is already in custody
“Musharraf will be caught one day and I will grab his collar and ask him why he was so brutal with us.” he was talking about grabing him on the day of judgement(Qayamat kay din) …
Same… Doc saab, that day he meant was Qayyamah. Thanks for clarification.
GEO: 2000 still inside? Confirmation please :(
person was hit in F7 while he was having meal in his home… he is injured and shifted to hospital
2000? oh god. When did you hear that?
GEO 5 to 10 mins ago… although GEO have a die hard habit of exaggerating a lot, I need confirmations.
The Pakistan Government should end this brutality.
RAIN AGAIN RAIN,
Its mean that Allah is providing water to those innocent kids in side the lal masjid who are kid naped by Ghazo,
May Allah save all ..ameen
Peace
@ Hamid,
I wish Govt can end this ,,,, Govt was and always is capable of finish this in few minutes,,,
but guess what The Govt of PK and those kids who are inside also are Paki… we want them all alive ….
PEace
May all innocents including students and security forces personnel remain safe. Afterall, they have families to support too, they dont desrve to die because of this crazy Mullah.
I pray for all of you, hope this ends now.
I think Ghazo is trying to hide some big person may be “OSAMA” is inside …
but for sure there are some out sider as well in the masjid may be some Tajikistani, afghanistani, African or what not…
Six day cant beleive it …. they have food, Electric, water, all still working mobiles are working still …. I think they have planed this all for long ….
what they have in Basement ….tons of explosive bullets..my god …they were trying to take over ISB or what ????
hell to Ghazi….
PEace
WK, I agree with you 100%.
Hell to Ghazi …. I will see him there and grab him by the collar and ….. Then I will look for Zia-ul-Haque, who brought these goones to this city.
Yes I believe too ghazi seems to be hiding someone inside the seminary foreign fighters possibly. There could also be a possibility that these miltants are pressuring ghazi but these are just speculations. Peace
@Kami you’ll meet all of them in hell? ;P
militants from Afghan war are very much present in Pakistan, Army and agencies are very much aware of that.. so it won’t be much of a surprise if they found some foreign students too..
let me share some thing interesting… according to Mush back in 80s when he was posted in Islamabad he used to take atleast 2 Daigs of biryani for this Madarsah after every month or two… (remember back in those days Maulana Ghazi’s father Maulana Abdullah was Incharge and was very close to then Dictator Gen Zia… and most of the officers in military were also atleast on from the top were relegious and islamic..)
@DOCTOR I will be there to greet them. It will be a pleasure. I am in Canada, and I hate the cold, hell would be just fine with me.
@HAMID I had a reply for you in yesterdays post, just in case you missed it click;
http://islamabad.metblogs.com/archives/2007/07/the_siege_of_lal_masjid_day_4.phtml
Just saw on geo that SSG commader leading the operation has been killed.
Another brave asset lost due to this bafoon Rasheed, they will not spare him now.
Kami,
NOT Killed “Shaheed” May Allah give him PEACE…..
SSG COL Shaheed MEan BIG TIME LOSE …..
TEARS TEARS TEARS
I LOVE MY PAKISTAN ….
PLEASE PEACE NOW
Kami,
NOT Killed “Shaheed” May Allah give him PEACE…..
SSG COL Shaheed MEan BIG TIME LOSE …..
TEARS TEARS TEARS
I LOVE MY PAKISTAN ….
PLEASE PEACE NOW
That Commander was leading from the front, not like these cowards hiding behind the hostages or running in a Burqa.
I appeal to all of you to pressure the Pakistani government to immediately end this brutality and at least obey international law in making sure the innocents inside are provided with food & water and the dead bodies are collected. We don’t believe the false stories the govt. is making up. They are politicizing the situation too much and some of us are being blinded by it. We need to realize that this level of force is NOT needed. This is state terrorism.
Ofcourse SHAHEED, sorry about the over sight.
@HAMID how much restraint you want them to show, it has been months not days, this is exemplary patience they have shown, nothing matches this in history.
Rasheed is making a ridiculous demand that he will surrender but will not be arrested. What is that? After all this shall we give him a jet fully loaded with fuel and send him to a pacific Island where he can spend the remainder of his life in luxury with his mother.
Great men in history have always stood up and faced tyranny, they did not let innocents die for them, even if they got hanged - the world remembers them. But guys like Rasheed die like rats and are very quickly forgotten.
Kami,
I don’t agree with Ghazi sahib is what they have done in the past few months. But the govt. is not making it easy for hundreds of innocents inside. They should show some flexibility but they refuse to do that. Ghazi sahib is agreeing for many many things. We all know he is nothing but talk. He is no bin laden. Why can’t the govt. just show some flexibility in the interests of innocents inside? That is my main concern. Even the Indian govt. and Armed forces have shown flexibility towards their enemies. This non-flexibility philosophy is Bush’s philosophy.
“They should show some flexibility”
Don’t be a fool.
Show all the bad people of the world that they can commit any crime, and as long as they have hostages they will be allowed to go free?
And free to start it all over again, somewhere else?
If it wasn’t for idiots like you, these people would not be able to get to this situation in the first place.
Shaz,
It’s because of heart-less people like yourself that innocent blood will be shed.
May Allah bring peace to Islamabad and stop the atrocities being committed by the Govt.
** STOP STATE TERRORISM **
Kami and Shaz,
Can you tell me how many people the Lal Masjid killed since February?
How many innocents has Musharraf killed?
Are you guys blinds? Stop being stooges.
State is just enforcing a rule, here… 5 days of waiting for someone to make up his mind is a bit too long. The children CAN leave the Masjid if they want… right? NO! You know why…!
The Masjid Compound was going down anyways, now be it a bomb or a bulldozer, all that matters is that this nut is still sitting inside, while reveling in the attention he is getting.
If the govt has started the operation, what the hell they are waiting for. All the mullah propaganda is at full swing again and all the so called moderate mulvis are on the back of these fanatics again. They should have finished it right after the burqa episode.
Shame on mullah rasheed. For putting women in front of him. He should take some lesson from Shaheed colnel.
The leaders of the cowards mullah raheed threatns to make islamabad into a baghdad. What a traitor. All he wants is safety of his life, otherwise he wants women to give up their life for him. If you let him go all is well. WHat a shameful stance.
Whatever loss occurs inside, the parents are responisble for that . Where the hell were thy when they were seeing what these people are doin on the streets of islamabad?
@phil
let me tell you first i hate fanatics as much as you do. but don’t agree with you that state is just enforcing a rule. this is naked terrorism , i believe mush and ghazi are both equal, both risking the lives of innocents to achieve their goals. btw they are no more risking the lives, they are actually killing innocent people. i have not heard/read even hitler or halaku saying ‘maray jayen gay’ as he said today.
So now they are shuhda, are they really?
@babar
that colonel was killed while killing his own people, he was terrorising the whole isb by blowing bombs, perhaps he died by a stray bullet of his own clad.
lest you forget about history read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Searchlight
Operation Searchlight and now Operation silence
Yes because they were fighting to save the very capital of Pakistan. SO what do the backers of lal masjid propose? That they should have been allowed to gather arms and ammunation inside and slowly hand over the islamabad to them? Never confront a bearded guy and let them take over the islamabad. Does not make me wonder as I know how much many people are fond of taliban style afghanistan anyway.
I wonder what the diplomats of all the countries thinking about our country with a war going on in the capital. Then they say why Pakistan was put so high in the list of failed states. Ghazi had said that shariat will be enforced on embassies too and president will be stopped from shaking hands with forign dignatiries. I am sure islamabad would have been the first capital of the world with no diplomats around except probably from saudia. What a great model of a modern state you guys have. Where any bearded person if he can shout Islam at the top of their voice can do whatever they want. And the state should not interfer.
@ PM salute to your logic. You mean all the policemen who were killed ever fighting thugs and decuits were all basterds because they were fighting against pakisani citizens and because they were using loud sounding rifels. We dont need any enemy from outside. I really have very low hopes for pakistan with people like you around.
you just sound like ghazi as he used to say about fahashi being allowed in capital of Pakistan. he used to talk about enforcing hadood and stoning people to death. but enlightend moderation says kill fanatics by bombs. so not much difference between ‘hadood’ and ‘enlightened moderation’
To all the backers of lal masjid, plesae tell me what would you have expected from any country and i mean any country in africa, asia , south america or anywhere todo if a situation like lal masjid was developing in their capital. I can not envision a worst scenario of terrorism and threat to the state than this. With the guy calling people from all over the country to bring their arms and challenge the state.
@ Babar your logic
policemen vs army
loud sounding rifels vs bombs
hugs and decuits vs children and women
btw i share your feelings ‘. I really have very low hopes for pakistan with people like you around.’
@ PM it would not hurt to get your IQ checked. And do let me know if its above 20. I said that the state should crush the armed rebilioun (Baghawat) before it takes over. I did not say to kill anybody who haves the most conservative ideas in the world or has the longest beared or wears the most obscuring burqa. If there was somebody touting guns and challenging state and asking girls to not cover their heads. taking their head scarfs off without the states saction, my stance would be same. Has nothing to do with enlightemnet. Already
“but enlightend moderation says kill fanatics by bombs”
@PM: Nothing wrong with that.
@ Babar Jupiter, you are angry, therefore you are wrong.
@ PM Dear PM, Yah thats problem with me, when someone screws my country and hence my people , I do get angry.
Colnel islam was not killed by innocent women and children. The army is constantly being fired upon and retaliated. I dont need to remind you that when law enforcing agenciec knonk at you door with a warrent, you dont have the right to defend. You must present your hands. It irks me a lot to say these obvious things again and again and explain myslef as if i am talking to 5 year old so that i have to say ovious things. And the above comparison which you have given between different things ,if you are offered it in any SAT type exam , you would certainly pick the last one as the wrong comparison. Wouldnt you.
By the way everybody shouldat least appreciate the fact that the colnel was in forefront, even though of being of high rank. In complete contrast to ghazi brothers. And by the way I do appreciate the bravery of some of the taliban fanatics too, but unfortunately pakistani political mulvis are not one of those.
I Salute to Lt. Col Haroon ul Islam Shaheed and all our army men who lost their lives for the sake of our country, fighting against these fanatics, May Allah provide them the best place in Heaven. ‘Amen’
” Pak Fauj tujhey salaam “
Altaf, Benazir, Zardari, Nawaz and God knows how many others were given a safe passage and they are worst criminals of all time. Dont you see when you take away the rights of the poor, their money, their right of justice, even basic human rights your not only killing them but their dependents too.
I don’t think Mulana and his students have done anything to deserve this state terrorism. Yes they have disturbed the law and order situation but who hasn’t, Politicians, media personals, lawyers teachers they have all at some point protested in the streets when section 144 was enforced isn’t that breech of law? isn’t that challenging the writ of the state?
And that biggest retard of Pakistan mush says “Surrender na kia to maray jain gay” I mean who talks like that with his own people. If he has balls I would like to see that freaking retard talk to india like this on the kashmir issue.
@PM seriuosly, you dont want to meet either ,Hitler or Halaku, its obvious that you dont know but believe me they were very bad guys, no one even comes close. Please dont compare Mush with them. I am not a great fan of Mush, but that I know, He became President at the most difficult part of our history. We were financially corrupt, drugs and guns abound, Mullahs let loose, banks looted by the politicians and Nations very survival at stake. On top of that 9/11, earthquake, and screwed up ideologs within military, please give him credit to hold his nerves in all this mayhem and take some good and some bad decisions, atleast he had the guts to do that. I can bet any other leader in the present lot would have cracked.
First time in our history he has given Pakistan a vibrant and independent media and resurrected our financial institutions, faced open criticism and did not shy away from challenges. I dont know how many of us would have the nerves to face all this, atleast give him credit for that.
To add to this there is no dearth of these Bin Laden look alikes with their lop sided logic and agenda’s and blood of innocents on their hands. On the other side there is a crazy cow boy named Bush, with most powerful gun in the world in his hands and the same mental level as the guys mentioned above.
There are more critical decision waiting in the back burner, I pray that in future he makes the right choices, and though I disagree with him on many counts but I wont volunteer to swap roles and be in his shoes.
JWH,
You have made an excellent point.
I am sincerely praying the Pak Govt. stops terrorizing these innocents trapped inside and shows some flexibility to Ghazi Sahib and his team.
Musharraf is partners with the biggest terrorist in the history of our country, Altaf Hussain.
Please ask the govt. to stop this operation. Let us raise our voice.
“I am sincerely praying the Pak Govt. stops terrorizing these innocents trapped inside and shows some flexibility to Ghazi Sahib and his team.”
Stress on the words innocent, and team…!
What innocence I ask, and what team? His elder changed clothes and left!?
@JWH Nobody in the history of Pakistan has setup parallel courts and starting enforcement of their screwed up laws. This not breaking the law, its parallism, “Its called enforcing your own screwed up laws”. In other words chaos and mayhem.
You know what the crazy Falullah of Swat a very close ally of Burqa posh has done. He has setup his own courts and kicked out polio workers from his area. now vaccination is haram and death by polio is shahadat. If not dealt now these biggots will turn this land into a mortuary.
Believe me the names you mentioned dont even come close. This is cancer, if not treated now it will not be cured.
So I say again Srrender kardo warna marey jaoo gey.
@ JWH:
Let correction begin from home, and I mean Islamabad Pakistan. With in a Masjid and his maulvi, the institutions that were so ‘homelike’ to all of us? As any of the other names that you took blemished the name of Islam like that? I don’t think so.
Do not turn this into a political matter, guys. This is a law and order situation and this justified aggression can and should be done against anyone creating problems.
BTW, I am sad the military hasn’t really aggressed in the way they are famed for, ref. Zia.
The army needs to fire in non-lethal gas and make everybody in the mosque unconsious. Then send the elite commandos in there and start hand cuffing everybody while they are still knocked out from the gas. They should also start picking up all the weapons. This is the best strategy as it will cause less blood shed and loss of life. This circus needs to be put to an end as quickly as possible! We’re almost at day 6 of this tragic event. Afterwards the mullahs should be tried in public court and should be hanged to death for this crime against humanity!
@HAMID I am a Punjabi, seriously is Altaf that bad, I have been to Karachi and people are making bridges there. Despite what happened on May 12, lots being build, its a very happeninig place despite the bankruptsy of KESC, their economy is booming, the arts council is again vibrant and there are lots of young leaders who are always available to their constituents. Fly overs and huge parks build in record time and people sticking together. You know what there was so much weaponary dumped into Karachi during Zia’s era that it will take time to take out the bullet from Karachi politics.
Foremost, as long as MQM is in control in Karachi these religous biggots cannot take over that city. I can deal with Mustafa Kamal in control of Karachi but cant deal with a person like Ghazi running the show in that biggest city of Karachi.
So on that count also, I think Mush has made the right choice.
The army needs to fire in non-lethal gas and make everybody in the mosque unconsious. Then send the elite commandos in there and start hand cuffing everybody while they are still knocked out from the gas. They should also start picking up all the weapons. This is the best strategy as it will cause less blood shed and loss of life. This circus needs to be put to an end as quickly as possible! We’re almost at day 6 of this tragic event. Afterwards the mullahs should be tried in public court and should be hanged to death for this crime against humanity!
Some people here seem to be very much worried about the lives of “innocent” people inside Lal masjid. It has really made me think, what is defination of innocent? May be in mulla world defination of innocent and criminal has been reversed, ofcourse every thing is possible from poor innocent mullas. I wonder, Where were you guys when these innocent girls and boys were wandering around the streets of Islamabad , crusing and threatening people,showing weapons, taking over children library, where were these people’s innocent parents? their poor parents were seeing it all and doing nothing about it, but today, they have also come out weeping and people like you guys have also appeared from some where with loads of mercy for them.Is not life of every human being important? Does not every human being deserves respect and equal rights or just you mullas deserve? Do these mullas and their followers beleive in any kind of human liberty and rights ? Have they ever shown any mercy for any one? These are the same innocent girls, boys and mullas, who were dragging an old woman and her daughter-in-law from her house.Does not she has any respect or rights or only his mother and he deserves which suddenly he is craving about so much? and if I am not wrong, these all mullas beleive in philosphy of “shehadat” so what’s the problem? Army and rest of the people of pakistan are criminal, worst than “kuffar” , so it should be an honor for them all to die, fighting these eveil people.But lo and behold, look at these brave moulvus, what are they doing, one brother was trying to escape with burqa, and other brother is hiding the shield of woman, where all concepts of fahashi,sharm’o’ haya have gone? where all lessons of grateness of shahadat have gone? why these mullas want to take other people lives and never willing to give their own? We need to get rid of these “innocent” people fully from our country and sent them to their place that is heaven.
@SARAH I have a few scores to settle with these guys. Please send them to hell, I will wait for them there.
i have heard one hadith that in the last days one muslim brother will kill another muslim brother and both will not know why they are killing and both will go to Jhanna ( can you guy please commoent on this if any body else have read this and give reference to it)
Dear Amin,
Last days for whom, the Muslims? It seems that by the end of this century every other race in this world will have the technology to leave this planet and colonize others. So, when the end comes we will be the only one’s left here any way. We are also taking great strides back to the days of jahalat and finding new ways to kill each other in our persuit of Jannah. e.g. suicide jackets, suicide planes, no vaccinations, in fact, we are filling up jannat faster than the angels can keep up.
I am surprised at how naive people are. Your perspective is bound to change if you get to live in another country and are not engulfed in myopic media but have access to a variety of information sources to develop informed opinion.
Have you thought why the intelligence agencies that can bug the chambers and homes of your supreme court justices with microphones and cameras have not been able to do the same to this Lal Masjid complex? Do you honestly believe it is by accident that this drama has been allowed to linger on for so long and not nipped in the bud six-eight months ago? Was it planned well enough (with so much time at hand) to have the building layout, the routes and controls for gas, water and electric supply all mapped out to shut down without impacting many surrounding areas? Could they not have planted their own people in there well in advance to rescue the women and children without bloodshed? You can read “Mosque raid boosts Musharraf image” at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6274018.stm to consider other possibilities for the situation you’re in.
There is so much talk about putting your armed forced on a pedestal. What makes the life of a high ranking officer more valuable than any ordinary citizen? Don’t you see the twisted logic that values human life based upon rank? Of course it is sad the commander lost his life but so is the case of the other 20+ people who have died, many of them innocent bye standers or law enforcement personnel (of lower ranks). They all had families which will be devastated for ever.
Did you read about the section officer and his friend who were killed by security forces when taking a morning walk not knowing they were in the curfew zone? And the one mentally unstable person who was shot in the forehead for being in there? Would it not make sense to shoot the curfew violators in the legs and not shoot to kill? Are you sure the officer was not killed by friendly fire? All of this shows poor planning and execution of this campaign.
There is no doubt these religious pranksters are criminals; they have violated the laws of their homeland, jeopardized innocent lives, and made a mockery of their faith. They do not represent Islam. They should have been rounded up much sooner and with a much smarter methodology. They should be smoked out and tried according to the laws of the land.
Wake up folks! Figure out why millions of youngsters are being placed in these seminaries. Your government is fully aware of what is being taught in these madressas. Why has Musharraf not brought them under control during his eight years with a curriculum like the rest of the educational system that teaches them open mindedness (like most people on this blog)? It is not that their parents want to send them to terror training camps but rather it takes care of their room & board with a potential career.
Don’t be fooled by the propaganda from either side. Talk is cheap. Make up your minds about what action you are going to take to bring about a positive change once this saga is over. Rule of law must prevail; billions must be diverted from Military Inc. to national infrastructure, education, health care, and public welfare; people must be allowed to choose their leaders and throw them out through democratic process, if there is to be any future for a failing state.
I find it very amusing to see all anti-extremism commenters here showing this much extremism. You should understand that extremism can not be eliminated by extremism, don’t you see the irony here.
I believe presently there are four types of laws enforced in our country:
1) Blind:
This type of law is for government officials, bureaucrats, technocrats and every one else in power.
2) Forgiving:
This is for elite class, politicians and other influential people or for those who have the buying power.
3) Strict if you cant find your way out:
This law is for a major population of pakistan that is middle class. Let me tell you it is very hard to find the way out specially if one is innocent.
4) Get nuked:
Now this one is for all the poor, molvis and so called extremist (literal meaning “Islamic extremist with beard”), this law sates “nuke everyone in sight, if one is not insight nuke the whole place”
And as Mulana Ghazi and his students come under this law I don’t think we have any other choice but to nuke the whole place.
All of my prayers are with Mulana Ghazi and his students. MAY ALLAH BLESS US ALL.
Maulana Ghazi has indeed damaged our religion.
@Malcolm9X:
Valid points and I agree with most of them.
@MALCOLM9X agreed on all points. but keep in mind Mush was not all powerful, MMA has the government in NWFP and there were lot of jihadist sympathizers in the army - legacy Zia-ul-Haque, plus inherent corruption and the landed gentry with strong ties to army. Remember if he had gone after Madressah’s before this incident then he would have no allies, except relatively few in the educated elite. The Shahid Masoods and others in the media would raised hue and cry and he would have been labelled killer of his own people just for the sake of pleasing the west.
I dont know how sincere Mush is in fixing Pakistan. As for the election process, even if they are held regularly, I dont see people voting on merit in the near future, by then it might be too late. Elections without land reforms will always bring bounty to the landlords and the poor will continue to suffer.
Seriously, I dont know how this mess can be fixed, but for now we need to steady the boat, avoid chaos and anarchy, dont go economically bankcrupt, hold elections on time (no matter how much doctored) and hopefully new leadership will emerge.
Kami - They have bugged Lal Masjid, and picked up arabic and uzbek talk in the background and on cellphones.
article here. ADNI Kronos ADNI Kronos is Italian/Arabic news source.
Apologies, that last comment should have been to Malcolm — I misread the header.
@JWH you are wrong on law number 4) Get Nuked. This has not happened to Ghazi Bros yet, they are still alive and well.
There is another law;
5) What we say is right and all of you are sinners and we will fix you by hook or crook.
Used by Mullahs enriched by foreign money, powered by the agencies to black mail the society in an effort to take it back to dark ages.
@ Malcom9x: Its easy to say that these militants should have been rounded up quicker, just like that. Apparently people are unaware of the fact that thousands of seminaries like these exist all over Pakistan and they have a lot of positive support from the common man, the middle class and the upper class people.
None of those seminaries sided with these two brothers because they do not advocate what Rasheed and Aziz did. And that becomes the basis of the popularity of the Madersa in Pakistan. A place where people send children to learn Islam. Not how to fire a gun while riding a bike.
Having that said, it is quite vivid the amount of sentiment that his attached in Pakistan with seminaries like these. Talk is cheap. Please, suggest a better way to go about doing this on a national level!? If you are suggesting a Wana like operation all over the place, then I will stop debating with you.
This is not Musharraf’s headache only… or for that matter anyone who takes the seat… this is a matter of national integrity and national interest. All of us should be a little responsible and a little more calmer in this regard. This is not a political matter, neither is Musharraf interested in commandeering this operation that he has taken up a seat behind the APCs and the sand bags. He, my dear friends, is touring Souther Balochistan for the ones who lost their homes and assets.
Please, don’t make everything Musharraf or the army’s fault. Thanks.
Some people here are claiming that extremism should not be responded by extremism.I would really like to know, how should it be trated? How do you treat theives, thugs, murderers, criminals, terrorists ? How should they be treated? Should they be left alone, and we should let them do whatever they want to do and wait for some miracle from god, which will change them? Law is suppose to capture them by using all means every where in this world, and fight them if they are showing resistance. Then how could these mullas be different? Who have not only committed one crime but all, listed above. So what’s so hue and cry about the lives of these people, for whom life does not matter , atleast other people’s.
@KAMI I agree they are not nuked yet but they are being bombarded and so is the case with waziristan , Baluchistan and other tribal areas.
About the 5th law, If the state has this many different laws for different citizens I guess they have every right to make one of their own and so do you and so do I.
Issues like LAL Masijd will keep emerging until one law is enforced for everyone. When the state will start considering everyone as equal, these issues will fade away, people will reject them, I know I will.
I was not knowing, punishing murderers, criminals. thugs means extremism.
Don’t belittle the status of Shaheed. Our Prophet (PBUH) has said that when two Muslims fight and one of them gets killed, both of them will enter Hell fire. The sahaba asked why both. The Prophet (PBUH) replied because even the dead one was intent on killing the other guy. And who is a Muslim. That is for Allah 9SWT) to decide. As long as one expresses that he belives in Allah (SWT) and His Prophet (PBUH), he is a Muslim since we cannot know what is in his heart.
Who’s Law
According to the law a Dictator who took over an elected government should be hanged to death……
BTW, what about one more operation? against the thugs who have occupied the prime real estate of Pakistan and who have taken the whole nation as hostage.
Yes SIR, I’m talking about the HQ
Well said. This is indeed every Pakitani’s problem, and it’s a problem about national unity.
@just_a_thought@mindless.com
I couldn’t agree more..
The real culprits mush and his force of thugs and terrorist should be hanged to death…
** STOP STATE TERRORISM **
@ Phil: Agreed! The Wana operation was exactly the wrong approach taken to appease others. Hearts and minds can never be won with bullets and bombs. Throughout history (since British times) peace was maintained in that region through political means, never through violence. The recent uprising of the local tribes against foreign elements is a good model of a plausible approach. During the past couple of days, the tribal people foiled an
abduction attempt on an army officer by these elements.
You’re also right that many of these problems did not originate during the past eight years and long term problems will require a long time to solve. But a movement has to start in the right direction. This is golden opportunity for Musharraf. As this situation comes to a close (hopefully in the next few days without major loss of life), the nation and the world opinion will be behind him. The extremists will be weakened (at least for the short term). He must rise above personal and parochial interests. Before I offer any suggestions allow me to differ on this not being a political matter. In governance, all matters are political.
Here is the ideal series of steps he can take (please forgive the idealistic nature of these suggestions, hope springs eternal!):
1- Promulgate a major overhaul of the Madersa system, bringing all of them (no exceptions) retaining its strengths as a resource for religious education and fortifying the curriculum with humanities, math and sciences. These should not be ‘owned’ by the ‘clerics’ of one religious school or another but by the state. Eradicate all warfare training from these institutions.
2- Striking when the iron is hot and he has majority support in assemblies, void the constitutional amendments incorporated since Zia’s time that violate women’s and minorities rights under the pretense of religion. Remove any clauses that give the military an opening to take over the government. The nation invests in its armed forces to protect its borders, not to run its government.
3- Acting on his slogan of ‘Pakistan First!’, declare that he is retiring from military service and will contest the next elections as a civilian. Distance himself from the Q-League house of cards and run as an independent.
4- Again, in the spirit of ‘Pakistan First’, acknowledge error of judgment, withdraw the reference against the CJP and save the Supreme Court from doing this for him. Pass constitutional amendments ensuring independence of the judiciary, eliminating the ‘doctrine of necessity’, and establishing a transparent process for disciplinary actions against corruption & abuse among its ranks.
Besides what Musharraf can/should do, there are things other segments of the population can do as well.
• The lawyers and judiciary has taken a stand on its self respect. The same can be done by teachers; resolve to produce the best educated students - refuse paid tutoring. Sounds impossible? If teachers in the U.S. do not accept paid tutoring, why would Pakistani teachers have less self respect? (Teachers in the US are not paid exorbitant salaries either.)
• Youth can lead volunteer organizations - give time and effort to better their nation.
• Imams learn and emphasize the best of humanity exemplified by our Prophet in human rights and doing good to others (this may mean less focus on the appearance aspects and more on actions).
In response to Kami’s comment “… As for the election process, even if they are held regularly, I don’t see people voting on merit in the near future, by then it might be too late. Elections without land reforms will always bring bounty to the landlords and the poor will continue to suffer.” Granted it is an arduous task and won’t show immediate results. Let’s put some more trust in the voting public. People of Pakistan are in no way inferior or less capable than the people in India. If Indians can make a democratic system work, Pakistanis can too. An election process that assures voters confidentiality will soon give them confidence to value the power of their vote. Remember, Bhutto’s biggest gift to the nation was not the nuclear program; it was the awareness he imbued among the poor of their equal rights.
I have dreamed long enough and it is 2AM on my side of the globe. I need to catch some sleep.
Peace!
Do u ppl think that Mr. Haroon Islam is shaheed?
I dont think so. Not every soldier, which dies while fighting is shaheed, specially when attacking the Masjid.
He just died and thats it.
Media is fully favoring govt. and is not showing any thing which can be used to put blames on Govt later on.
Firing (bullets and mortars) is continously being done from army wid not much reply from inside.
Army was the one who initiated the mortar attack. Govt. just gave the lame reason that LAl masjid persons have started mortar attack. Actually, they have to show the ppl, y they are using mortars, they produced fake news and ppl agreed happily.
We need protest in islamabbad against this operation NOW.
http://weblogs.com.pk/blogs/shahzad/archive/2007/07/08/red-mosque-lal-masjid.aspx
mujahideen ko pure pakistan main aise khud kush hamle karne chahye ke is napak army ko pata chal jaye. ab gali gali main jang honi chahiye, aur pure mulk main ulema ke zere nigrani islami nizam ke nifaz per hi is ka khatma hona chahye. Aur islami asoloon ke mutabiq pure mulk main mojod in roshan khayalon ke sir kalam ker dene chahye.
It has taken too long for the govt. It should have been wrapped up soon after the Abdul Aziz was caught escaping in the burqa.
And Ghazi sb is claiming 300 people were killed inside the madressah last night because of the bombing / shelling. Could that be true?
I am just afraid that all this patience may prove to be useless if the end, so many lives are lost, which the govt’s restraint was supposed to save.
@ IUNKNOWN
First of all… show some respect for starters! He is Lt. Col Haroon… not Mr. Haroon! If you have knack to call the hardliner militant inside that mosque a ‘molana’ then you damn well should give respect to the ones outside it!
Secondly, You say these people should not be called martyrs? As If! What about those who actually are sitting in mosques and shooting! What makes them? HOLY? No sir, I am sorry to say that this is going to cost those inside a lot. Now, its not going to be just an operation. It’s become personal to a lot of people around. I’d be surprised if any one holding a gun in that compound will live to get out of this. The Corps Commander conference going on in the Cantt here in Pindi is undergoing right now to discuss the fate of these militants.
Stay tuned IUNKNOWN… your beloved molana and his merrymen are going to be history soon insha Allah. Perhaps you should start thinking what to wear for their ‘ghaibana’ funeral soon :)
@ Ahmed, Subhanallah! What a spirit you are displaying! Your zeal has made you blind, how many roshan-khayals are you going to kill in your drive, surely it would be in tens of millions in Pakistan only. And where do you get your guidance that to kill every person having a difference of opinion with you.
The likes of you are just siding with the Lal Masjid fanatics under the blind belief that anyone using the name of Islam can’t be wrong. And when everything’s so obvious, you guys still like to believe that the government is hiding the truth. How can the media keep hiding the truth, which may go against the govt, especially when the same media has been reporting so many anti-govt things during the CJ and Karachi happenings.
I remember having heard a saying, probably by Allama Iqbal, that Satan is most effective in his strategies when he starts chanting the slogans of religion. So true today!
@ JWH If you remember , none of the politicians, when they were jailed , brought out a klashinkoof and resisted their detention. Mian Shareef went to jail in that old age, zardari spent time in jail. Evry time police tried to arrest them, they either gave in or flew away. Never ever brought in islam and declared that they will fight with women of other folks as their sheild. They may be extremely bad politicians, but they never defied the idea of pakistan as “one state”.
I have a theory why people like mullahs so much. Because they give them a chance to become self rightous and point fingers on others. It also absolves them of any moral responsibilites and logical thinking because then they can snub others by taking the name of religion. Its the easiest way to control others. It comes down to i am right you are wrong i represent God , if you dare say anything, I will cut your limbs. And beleive me they will not litsen to any logic to give away this exalted position of theirs in the society.
Everyone inside who is not involved in fighting the security forces is INNOCENT hence the recent update to this post which says 300 *militants* killed is simply a sign of one’s cold-bloodedness.
May Allah give us the oppurtunity to distinguish good from evil and allow us to value human life. The way I see it, some of us have become “lotays” to the “war on terror”. Our hearts have become hardened, so much so that we are declaring the hundreds inside lal masjid / jamia hafsa militants hence making shedding their blood “allowed”. Where has our towing the line of the west brought us?
May Allah guide us so differentiate truth from falsehood. I’ve said many times in the past, I do not and never have supported Ghazi sahib’s agenda but this does not blind me from realizing the cold-blooded murded our government has committed (read STATE TERRORISM).
@ Hamid. From where are you getting the notion that this is a move towards STATE TERRORISM? If that were so then this operation would have been long over and EVERYONE in that red mosque would be dead by now! THAT is STATE TERRORISM. Waiting them out and mounting pressure on the militants is NOT STATE TERRORISM!
Fauzan,
Here is the definition of terorrism from the dictionary for you in case you didn’t know:
Main Entry: ter·ror
Pronunciation: ‘ter-&r, ‘te-r&r
1 : a state of intense fear
2 a : one that inspires fear : SCOURGE b : a frightening aspect c : a cause of anxiety : WORRY d : an appalling person or thing; especially : BRAT
3 : REIGN OF TERROR
4 : violent or destructive acts (as bombing) committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands
Is keeping hundreds of unarmed individuals in a such a state against all international standards (in fear and without basic necassities) even when Ghazi and Team have volunteered to leave everything and surrender to supreme court not TERROR?
@ Hamid. It’s a fool’s premise to think that Rasheed Ghazi will ever give himself over to the authorities and let the courts decide his and his companions fate! Unless they are pushed back with no aces up their sleeves any more (read hostages), he WILL keep on defying it. His only excuse to stay strong in there are those innocent lives he is using as a shield. Take that away from him and he’ll be a changed man.
As for your definition of State Terrorism… let’s look at it :
1 : a state of intense fear
You think those innocent women and children held inside by armed militants are not fearful?
2 a : one that inspires fear : SCOURGE b : a frightening aspect c : a cause of anxiety : WORRY d : an appalling person or thing; especially : BRAT
For a cleric who is ready to die and is willing to take the hundreds down with him is not some one who is inspiring fear. The likes of people who say that women have been created from a bone that is twisted and that bone has to be beaten constantly to be straightened is not inspiring fear? or those who encourage suicide bombings in the hearts and minds of those whose parents have been worried sick for years about their sons and daughters absence is not fear?
3 : REIGN OF TERROR
read above. What do you call the hostage situation going on there? the grand circus?
4 : violent or destructive acts (as bombing) committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands
Well you said it yourself on this one :)
Lal Masjid drama will continue till mid next week when CJ judgement is due.
I wish Pak military had a daisy-cutter. A single daisy-cutter would have simplified the operation.
I don’t think holding an AK47 is a crime as I see it everyday in suburbs of karachi until it is proved that it is unlicensed. I have also witness a scenario where residents of a complex forcefully removed 16 women from their apartment and threw their stuff out as they were found guilty and involved in prostitution, however before acting upon it themselves they contacted the police authorities and waited for their response for almost two months but all in vain. I guess musharaf is still unaware of this or else the complex would have been bombarded by now.
If govt had listen to the plea of Lal masjid administration and the people of surrounding areas this would have never happened.
Other than forcefull possession of the childrens library I don’t see anything else that they did wrong. In fact I think that govt should thank the Mulana brothers for doing the government’s job.
The main point of this operation was the issue of possesion of children’s library and Mulana Ghazi has announced that he will step back from it and other things too, I dont see any reason why state is still terrorizing them and killing hundreds of innocent students.
If I for second consider Mulana brothers as terrorist than this becomes a hostage situation and as we all know there are plenty of examples where we have seen terrorist released for the sake of the lives of the innocent. An example is of Maulana Masood Azhar who was released in india after a demand came from plane hijackers and he was one of the most wanted terrorist in india.
Either way this state terrorism should be stopped as soon as possible.
MAY ALLAH BLESS US ALL.
@JWH: There are many examples in recent history where several wanted people (even criminals likes Zardari) not to mention the former prime minster himself was given a “safe passage”. The Musharraf government is obviously covering up other issues and has no value for human life.
@Fauzan: Whatever the situation may be (hostage or no hostage), the fact of the matter is that your master Musharraf and his hukoomat is terrorizing these people by not resolving this issue like they have with criminals and terrorists in the past. Ghazi sahib is guilty of making hollow threats, he is not a criminal in any sense of the word.
salam folks,
Why is media calling killed soldier Haroon Islam a shaheed? How can he be shaheed when he was attacking a MASJID? He is not shaheed. He is simply a soldier who was killed in an army operationg against a house of Allah. May Allah forgive him for attacking a Masjid.
Tonight is the night when Pakistan will be put back on the right course. Terrorism will be eliminated.
@ Hamid. Here’s a simple universal rule for your information:
if a = b and b = c the a = c!
Militants have killed government officials and the militants are being led by Rasheed Ghazi! If you think the government is a murderer for trying to curb down these militants then so is Ghazi and all his companions too! You and I, we are two sides of the same coin my friend! I don’t know about you but my master is only Allah. Period! He will be the final judge of what happens here but if you are telling me that rasheed ghazi is a holy man and he’s the innocent party in all this then YOU are the one who is under a spell! What makes you think that those inside will not kill the innocent themselves and claim that as an act of terrorism by the govt? What makes you think that Ghazi is incharge of this in the first place? There are a million speculations in all of this Hamid. The blame no doubt goes either way and we need to accept that like many other events in this world, some things will never come to surface!
Mamu> Lal “Masjid” was not a Masjid. It was a terrorist camp where people were actively planning to take over Islamabad in a violent manner.
Jayjay > It’s not that simple. o_O. Lal Masjid isn’t the only terrorist/extremist threat.
@Fauzan, ppl like u and musharraf have always been there in the past. They have tried a lot to harm islam. But still u can see whose name is shining and whose not.
Mr.Haroon and company is just killing the muslims.
u know who started the firing? Ur beloved army. not the militants. Musharraf is just screwing the things up for retaining his govt.
@JayJay: look Wat ur kala raja says abt this?
He isnt a pakistani if we assume his saying to be true. He isnt a pakistani i know. Just an indian agent. and terrorist number 2. No#1 is Musharraf.
@Kashif: u seems nearly right. They are delaying the operation deleberately. As they want to distract ppl from CJ case and they have pretty successfull in that uptill now.
Just for every ones’s information: the students inside Masjid are staying according to their own will and no one has forced them to stay. Neither they are using innocent kids as a shield. Its all musharraf’s propaganda. The daughter of army generals might be inside masjid. So that might be the reason for liniency rather than any thing else.
JK and Durrani of pakistan:
u both are disinforming the other ppl.
350 students have been reached ALLAH due to the beloved army’s operation . Govt. is saying this is wrong.
Where are the human rights organizatios now?
Why is MURDAAR haroon is being imposed as Martyr?
selams to all
do you think there is a tunnel under the masjid
from where these radicals can escape?
just wondering?
has anyone of u guys been in the masjid at any time?
mohamed from sweden
When Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto could be declared as SHAHEED then anyone could be called a “Shaheed”. *grin*
Since “Pak” army don’t have balls to challenge NATO and US army who cross the border easily and challenge so called “WRIT OF GOVERNMENT” and reason of “STATE TERRORISM”. The dictator is now using his chaps for street fights because that’s all they can do now after living under the supervision of Musharraf now. The days are not far when Army officers would be deployed as Traffic Tullas in different cities of Pakistan. :-). Infact the process is already stared in karachi in the form of Pakistan Rangers deployment as Traffic Tullas. :>
Fauzan Sohail: Would you also explain “plagiarism” like you explained “State Terrorism”. I wonder what happened with wecite.com. Is CHOR MANAGMENT coming up with some more stolen stuff in future or you guys have just given up? *grin*
IUNKNOWN. I am done explaining things to the likes of you. Unfortunately, for you these Moulvis will always be heroes no matter what they do :) I don’t blame you actually. You come from the same mentality as the average common man of this country comes from… backward and with a blind faith in the clerics.
Your beloved mullah and his faithful WILL die and there is nothing you nor I or any one here can and will be able to do to stop it :) So go on. Chant all you want coz that is all you can do here any ways.
As for not calling Lt. Col Haroon a shaheed here? It doesn’t matter what you think because the media thinks of him as so. How many people heard you say he isn’t ? :)
Chant away. I look fwd to your fav mullah’s bullet riddled body soon insha Allah.
@ Adnan. stop being childish here kiddo. Wecite’s issue has got nothing to do with this. ps its dot net and not dot com.
Shud i laugh on ur comments @Fauzan? U need to grow up.
If all mullaah’s die out, no one will be there to pray ur namaz-e-janazah, Idiot.
Media says many words abt many things. They are even try to prove that homosexuality is ok. Do u beleive in it? May be u can, as u r from Musharraf’s way ward company.
Waza’ main tum Nasara ho, tamaddun main Yahood..
Yeh muslaman hain jinhain daik kay shermain Hanood
@ADnan, u r always as good . I do like S.S.G a lot. But in these circumstances, they are not doing the right thing. I think they shud kill musharraf. All is gona be over then.
The amusing thing is, that during the course of this operation there have been some rather large political changes over all? Can someone point them out i’d be rather surprised if you could, specialy if you’ve heard the rumors that Gen Mushraff has Pardoned Benzir and Zardari from all cases of Corupption via his influence on NAB and there are ofcourse several other items on the table.. I honestly feel bad for the people inside the Mosque and the only thing i honestly have to say about the Issue with the Maulana being shown on National TV in a burqa is that quite frankly thats LAME and it’s put a label on all other Molvi’s or Imamm’s in our Soceity its disturbing and disgusting..
@IUNKNOWN you have missed the esssence of Islam i.e. you dont need a Maulvi to pray or say you Namaz-e-Janaza. I live in a non Muslim state we do it here all the time without a uniformed Maulvi. This Maulvi culture developed in Islam in a very later stage and has developed in exactly the same way as the Catholic Church during the dark ages. They used to cruicify scientists and burn women saying that they were witches, so eventually the people put them in there place and confined them to Vatican.
This is now what is happenning in our society that Mullahs are trying to develop a church like institution which is against the very nature of our religion. So, people like Aziz & Rasheed are nothing but screwed up ideologs in otherwords - Fitna!
@KAMAL unfortunately we have to work with what we have, they are trying to develop an alliance that can counter this extreme right threat, in the next elections. There is a big leadership vaccuum in our country, hopefully, if the election process continues new leadership might emerge.Otherwise, the irony is that the present lot of politicians can neither me ignored or given a free hand because they have the potential of looting this country to bankruptsy.
@KAMI
Agreed but the is thing that there is in all honesty and openness no one single politician who in atleast to say my own opnion deserves the seat of presidency its a grass root sorta situtation starting from our CDA Jamadars to Our Presidency its all one and the same there are unfortunately and i do feel honestly very bad saying this a VERY limited ammount of people who are Honest in what they do nowa days if you want to eliminate Corruption and all these other social evils you have to start at the Grass Root level. =/ Which i sosmehting i’m higly doubtfull the goverment or in general necsissty anyone would agree with.
@IUNKNOWN you said,”They should kill Musharraf”. Let me tell you if this happens now, the very fabric of our society will fall apart, there is no one with the balls to stand up and take responsibility for his / her actions.
I know that Musharraf has made some bad decision but he has made s