Operation Silence – Final Showdown

An old man cries for his son trapped inside the Jamia Hafsa Complex – Photo Credit :AP

Ghazi Abdur Rasheed, Deputy Cleric Of Lal Masjid Killed in Crossfire.According to the latest information, Abdur Rasheed Ghazi, who was leading the militant resistance from within the Lal Masjid after the capture of his brother Abdul Aziz, has been killed in cross fire. He was asked to surrender out of his bunker after being hit in the leg, but he could not come out after 4 hours of siege of his bunker. Later he was killed in exchange of fire.

Tags: Lal Masjid , Islamabad, Islamabad Seige, Jameya Hafsa, Jameya Fareedia, Lal Masjid Seige

First Reports
Talks between the government and Lal masjid have failed. The religous leaders from the government side came back dissappointed, and shut off their mobiles. Final operation given a go ahead. Operation started at 4.30 am, after a government’s press conference. Severe fighting going on since 4:45 am. Commandoes have entered the complex. More than 70 big explosions. 2 ellite force officers dead. 8 severely injured. The whole of Islamabad is rocking with mega explosions, and intense firing. More than 30 ambulances deployed and in action. According to the reports by Ghazi Abdul-ur-Rasheed his mother died during the assault. A significant number of dead bodies inside the complex. According to the military spokesman, the millitants are using rocket launchers, gernades, and heavy arms. Meanwhile when the operation started, 20 children were safely recovered. DG ISPR has reported that the operation will be completed in 3 hours, and currently militants are present in the basement of the complex. Some militants are showing resistance from the top of the complex. Clouds of heavy smoke rising from the complex. Islamabad has been sealed off from all directions so people comming to the capital from outside should take appropriate measures.

Latest!-11th July 01:30 PM
Reports from last night indicate 3 more militants were killed in exchange of fire, and another secuirty force official was also killed in cross fire. Operation is almost complete, with the clean up second phase already in progress in some parts of the complex. Media personal are told to be taken into the complex sometime later in the afternoon. According to government officials all illegal structures in the Lal Masjid compound which were established on illegally occupied state land would be demolished after the operation is complete. Meanwhile the city is slowly returning back to routine life, however at this time there were no confrimed reports of relaxation in curfew in the affected areas of G-6 sector where the complex is situated. Citizens are advised to take caution travelling in eastern parts of Bluearea, and sectors G-7 and G-5.

Latest!-10th July 11:00 PM
Ghazi Abdur Rasheed’s body has been taken out of the Jamia Hafsa Complex. Meanwhile three loud explosions have been heard from Lal Masjid over here. Operation still going on. Bodies being sent to I-8 morge. Reports of taking media to have a round of Lal masjid complex tomorrow. Musharraf will address the nation tomorrow evening.

Latest!-10th July 08:45 PM
Islamabad is under red alert and a sensitive security zone right now. Security forces are on a look out for mysterious figures, and spot checking being done on any suspicous people. Military forces are securing different sectors for fear of any possible repurcussion and backlash of this event as riots have already broken out in other parts of the country including Swat and Kohistan area. Meanwhile operation still going on in Lal Masjid against hand full of militants who are showing resistance. Once the area has been cleared and sanatized, cleaning forces would move in to secure the area. Reports confirm cousins of Ghazi’ have also been killed in the operation. Ghazi’s aunts and sisters have requested the government official to hand over ghazi’s body to the relatives for proper burial. Security personals are doing spot checks for any suspicious people. Residents of G-6,-G-7,-Bluearea,F-6,F-7 and Diplomatic enclave are advised to take appropriate caution while travelling.

Latest!-10th July 06:45 PM
Ghazi Abdur Rasheed, Deputy Cleric Of Lal Masjid Killed in Crossfire. According to the latest information, Abdur Rasheed Ghazi, who was leading the militant resistance from within the Lal Masjid after the capture of his brother Abdul Aziz, has been killed in cross fire. He was asked to surrender out of his bunker after being hit in the leg, but he could not come out after 4 hours of siege of his bunker. Later he was killed in exchange of fire. His body is still inside the facility and has not been recovered yet. Security forces are continuing operations in other part of the area and trying to free any additional hostages.

10th July 06:15 PM
Members of delgation of religious scholars who were in negotiations with the Lal Masjid administration have blamed the government for taking a U turn on negotiations. According to them the final draft of resolution was agreed on by all parties including senior government officials. However when it was taken to the president house for approval by Chaudary Shujhat, he came back with a totally different copy of the draft with resulted in fall out and bycot by the religious scholars and the Lal Masjid Administration.

10th July 04:15 PM
According to latest reports, security officials are trying to break into the main hall where Ghazi Abdur Rasheed is supposedly present. Despite earlier calls by the security personal to drop their weapons and come out in the open. no one has responded from the hall. There are concerns that the whole hall is bobby trapped and security personals’ break in could trigger explosives and bring down the entire structure. Meanwhile there are reports of investigation being done from the women who have recently been brought out of the complex about the nature of explosives set up in the remaining area as well as possible hostages in the compund to have sufficent information before taking any actions. Security forces have also restricted access of public to the eastern part of blue area.

10th July 02:45 PM
According to a telephonic interview given to some foriegn journalist by one of the occupants of Lal Masjid, Ghazi Abdur Rasheed is still alive inside the complex and is particpating in leading the command of resistance from the southern section of the complex. It’s the peak of summer season this time around the year here in Islamabad, and the weather of Islamabad is extreemly hot right now with a hot breeze blowing. It’s the middle of the afternoon and temperature is approximately in the mid 40 degrees centigrade. The children and women inside the complex have been facing heavy tear gas shelling, power cuts, water supply cuts, and traumatizing loud explosions. They have already seen non stop graphic stream of events of death and destruction for over 10 hours now.

10th July 02:00 PM
Latest unconfirmed reports on the women freed from the complex disclose that among the women who have been brought out of the complex alive include the lady principal of Lal masjid, and wife of Abdul Aziz Ume Hassan, and her daughter Isma.

10th July 01:30 PM
A new update from official sources put the security personal death toll to 8 which includes one captain from the SSG force. In the meanwhile around 24 burqa clad women with 20+ children managed to escape the complex. The operation is now going on in the southern section of the complex. The whole area is under heavy tear gas shelling by security forces, and around 12000 security forces including SSG, Army, and Police have been deployed. A further clarification has been provided by the officials that no nerve gas was used during the operation and stun gernades were used. Also contrary to the earlier reports on the capture of Ghazi Abur Rasheed, he is still at large somewhere inside the complex

10th July 11:15 AM
According to the latest updates 7 additional security personel are dead which include 2 captains from the army SSG and one senior official of ellite force. This brings the security personal death toll to 13. Earlier several more militants have surrendered, while siege of underground bunkers continues.

10th July 9:45 AM
The operation has moved into its final phase where security forces have seiged the hardcore militants in the basements, where they are probably keeping the hostage women and children. Heavy explosions followed by sporadic firing being heard from the area. These could either be explosives being set off by the security forces or the possible land mines which were feared to have been planted throughout the complex.

10th July 9:30 AM
Reserve doctors and apprentice are being taken to Lal Masjid. It seems that a major portion of the complex has been secured for deployment of medical personal.

10th July 9:15 AM
Few more explosions heard at Lal Masjid from where I am

10th July 8:45 AM
Total of 6 security personal have died in the operation according to the reports from the hospital. DG ARMY ISPR would be holding a press conference shortly. According to official reports, a total 40 militants have been killed. 24 people were arrested fleeing from the complex. Operation still going on to clear the basements. There is so far no news about the condition of the hostages.

10th July 8:20 AM
Maximum area of Jamia Hafsa secured according to unofficial reports. Lal Masjid being searched by commandoes. According to unconfirmed reports, Ghazi Abdur Rasheed has been arrested.

10th July 8:15 AM
After over 4 hours of 150 explosions and intense firing from both sides, there is silence around the vicinity of Lal Masjid. Looks like the operation has stopped, and army is making announcements on loud speakers for militants to come out with hands up. The top levels of Jamia Hafsa have been cleared. Only bunkers and basements remain where the militants have retreated.

10th July 8:00 AM
Situation critical in PIMS and Poly Clinic. Normal patient relatives pushed out. Media people not allowed to enter the hospitals. Police pushing the media out of the hospital and are announcing that they have orders to shoot on sight if anyone tries to enter the hospital.

10th July 7:50 AM
According to the latest update by the military spokesman, 60% of the complex has been cleared. Ghazi Rasheed managed to get in touch with a local television reporting he could see commandoes in the vicinity and then his line disconnected. Army is announcing that those people who want to come out of the complex can come out of the complex with their hands up. There are still women children , and non militant men trapped in the complex. I can hear sporadic fire from where I am.

10th July 7:30 AM
Firing has subsided a lot, which could probably mean that security forces have essentially taken over a major portion of the complex. Operation probably has moved into it’s final phases. Media persons not allowed near the quardent off site, and security personal have been oredered to shoot them on sight. Media people not allowed near the hospitals too. Scout helicopters flying over the complex.

10th July 7:20 AM
3 special forces personal die. 20 militants casualties. 15 militants injured. Nerve gas used in the basement. Firing has reduced a somewhat probably due to casualities within the complex. 40% of the complex under security forces control. A significant portion of the complex was bobby trapped according to the army spokesman.

10th July 7:15 AM
Comandoes enter the basement!. The top of complex has been cleared. 10 big buses dispatched towards Lal Masjid. Intense shelling of tear gas and firing continues and rounds of automatic weapons can be heard from here. Ghazi Rasheed says he will fight till martyrdom. Security forces dead bodies being rushed to PIMS. 50 people arrested from the complex till now. Residents of G-6 advised not to leave their homes. 70 resistants killed or injured in the operation so far.

10th July 7:00 AM
A part of Lal masjid on fire!! Black smoke rising from the complex. Intense fighting going on, and severe resistance from the militants.

247 Comments so far

  1. pkmalang (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 6:11 am

    Fellas, we can blame anyone and everyone till we turn blue, but still we will not be able to come to conclusive reason and decision to say that if this was good or bad action.

    Its not about Islam, West or Musharraf, really its all about the law & order and safety of mankind. If this would a happen in Hazrat Umar time, I can bet you he would have take the same action.

    Even to the point that Hazrat Abu Bakr attack the tribes, who refused to pay zakat, only to restore the writ of Islam at that time.

    So there was really no better solution for this challenge, it was really “DAMN IF YOU DO OR DAMN IF YOU DON’T” for the government.

    I know it is sad for the loss of that many people.

  2. PAK 4 ALL (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 6:15 am

    @ Sheepoo
    Your name sounds funny since I dont know its meaning.
    But boy you hit the nail.
    Everybody must read

  3. justathought@mindless.com (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 6:40 am

    IF you are wanting SECULARISM would you like your mom to have a lesbian girl friend or would it be ok for your dad to have a a$$-banger for him? may be thats ok for you but not for majority of Pakistanis.

    Secularism has its own gods, MONEY AND MEDIA. the ones who have worshipped money a lot are affraid of media and the rest are just affraid of money.
    So which GOD do you worship???

  4. George (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 6:45 am

    My comment a few comments above was mistakenly directed to pakistani, it should have been directed to sheepoo.

  5. JWH (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 7:28 am

    @Kami: Secularism is against the very basic ideology of Islam, If you can’t understand this than there is no room for a debate.

    @pkmalang: Don’t compare musharaf’s regime with Hazarat Umar’s ideal Islamic state. If this was a Islamic state I’ll be the first one to condemn these guys.

  6. Kami (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 7:42 am

    @justathought@mindless.com Well first I felt a tinge of anger on your comments then I saw your name, so I thought how appropriate.

    If what you said secularism is then God help you, I dont know how to phrase this but Jahalat is the biggest threat to any society. Whatever, you say about majority of Pakistani’s, this is the land where ordinary people of all religions co-existed and still live together in peace but thanks to screwed up people like you who dont know what they are, we are in such a peril.

    When you post comments like this you not only defame yourself, but also defame your beliefs and your cause. If you cannot present an argument then you are nothing but a balooney. Imagine prophet Mohammed talking like that to people of Mecca, can you guess how many Kafirs would have changed their beliefs and converted to Islam.

  7. Kami (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 7:53 am

    @JWH Can you tell me what’s the basic ideology of Islam?

    I have put this question to many Ulema’s personally, they have all come up with different versions. The answere varies from Maslaq to Maslaq and the respective intellectual level.Some even have said Secularism and Islam are not in contradiction.

    All I know is that all religions including Islam try to give some answeres to some eternal questions dogging human beings i.e. Who we are? Where are we going? Who is resposible for our action?

    No religion gives you absolute laws or absolute truths, all religions including Islam give you a belief system that can give you solace and a reason to live. So life is to be cherished and individual beliefs respected and not discriminated upon.

  8. Malcolm9X (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 8:13 am

    Kami, Miriam and Sheepo,

    Thank you for moving the discussions to sanity. Hope it catches on and discussions move from emotional outbursts to critical cool headed thinking.


  9. jayjay (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 10:30 am


    ISLAMABAD, July 10: Having been part of the late-night negotiations between the authorities and Maulana Abdul Rasheed Ghazi to avert bloodshed at the Lal Masjid-Jamia Hafsa compound, Pakistan’s leading social worker Maulana Abdul Sattar Edhi told Dawn after the launch of pre-dawn ‘operation Silence’ on Tuesday that he had known all along that the obstinate ‘Maulvi’ would not listen.

    “I knew from the first day that ‘Maulvi’ does not listen,” said Mr Edhi remorsefully amid the roaring sound of combat operation, eight hours after all attempts to peacefully resolve the Lal Masjid crisis failed.

    “This is all a consequence of (Ghazi’s) stubbornness,” is how he summed it up as he looked on helplessly and desolately.

    His message for the people of Pakistan, particularly to thousands of Madaris throughout the country was: “Pursue peace, be humane and shun arms and militancy.”

    With a distant look in his eyes, the 84-year-old frail Edhi, whose feet were swollen, observed: “Aagar mein bhee ziddi hota tu kamyab na hota” (If I was also stubborn I would not have succeeded).

    Edhi had 60 ambulances parked in the area as he sat under a green leafy tree with the sun pouring down on the capital’s curfew-hit G-6 sector. Clad in his typical tatty militia outfit and cap, he recalled his three-minute telephonic conversation with Rasheed Ghazi at about 10.30pm on Monday, during which he pleaded for a compromise.

    “I advised him against blackmail and reminded him that Islam does not allow killing of innocent people in the name of jihad,” Edhi recounted. But he said the Maulana’s response was: “Yeh Allah ki marzi hai (This is God’s will)” and then disconnected the phone. Edhi tried calling him again but gave up when there was no response even after four attempts.

    Edhi believed that the government had shown flexibility and had even respected his call for a ceasefire on Monday afternoon. “The government was willing for a compromise but unfortunately Maulana Abdul Rashid was not forthcoming,” he noted.

    Edhi said he knew the operation was inevitable when told by the authorities to go and rest at 11.00pm. Edhi received the next call at 3.30am and he rushed to the scene with his ambulances and staff. That was a signal that operation was about to be launched, he said.

    He told Dawn that the authorities had sought the services of only six Edhi Foundation ambulances to carry six injured men to the hospital until 1.30pm.

    According to him, he had arrived in the capital at his own initiative just a day after returning from New York. He, however, said his wife came here last week after she was directly approached by President Musharraf.

  10. Ahmed (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 10:32 am

    social worker Edhi talks about how he tried to convince ghazi but he wont listen. He blames ghazis stubborness on the issue. More details here

  11. Ahmed (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 10:33 am

    you beat me to it :)

  12. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 11:04 am

    Kid,if i am not wrong then it was you who were offline for the whole day so maybe slept for long after taking pills? *wink*

    you’re saying what I already said, authors are baised and don’t say NOBODY is unbaised. there are several news suorces which are neutral. If you don’t know then it’s issue at your end.

    Regarding the ayah, hints are enough … the tuzilo part is of more weightage here

    Trying to be falosfical while you’re not one. comeone be brave and explain why did you quote the ayah. *grin*.

    IMO,nobody gained izzat,neither army nor ghazis but killing of ghazis made him appear as a hero for others which is not good. these re not my words and if you would have listened absar alam, he actually said this.

  13. Phil (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 11:27 am

    People like Hamid like to disparage the ones willing to have a meaningful discussion here with different POVs, not everyone here thinks like him or wants to think like him.

    Thanks A, it means a lot! Our differences make us stronger.

    If there was anyone who was more deserving of a Noble prize, it was Abdur Sattar Edhi. Bravo, Edhi!

  14. Phil (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 11:42 am

    @ JWH; Secularism is against the very basic ideology of Islam, If you can’t understand this than there is no room for a debate.

    Misrepresenting Islam, 101. Please refrain from issuing fatwas here when you can’t handle what others say what they think about you. Your statements are as credible as your references.

    Where in the Quran does it say it can’t tolerate non-Muslims?

  15. Nosheen (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 11:58 am

    Can any one Please explain me ,what was the fight for ?What was the lal masjid people were fighting for and what was the reason for which these mush people were fighting againts. I am totally confused…… .

  16. A for [pine]apple (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 12:13 pm

    let’s see if someone wants to come up with a summary dear nosheen :-)

  17. IUnknown (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 12:16 pm

    @JayJay, govt. didnt want to sign any deal with ARG (RHA). It was just a drama and they wanted to take a bit more time to reorganize and plan the attack

    Now, the Khacchar (Shaukat Aziz) has said that same thing will be repeated for other Madariss.

    Lets c if we kill our selves first or india attacks on pakistan first.

  18. UBD (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 12:53 pm

    @ nosheen:
    atleast 200 ppl died, ppl r willing to kill opponent here on IMB. and the story is almost @ the end. now she is asking zulaiqah mard teeh ya aurat?

  19. sean (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 1:45 pm

    As the dust settles fnally over the Red Mosque the religious argument that is tearing your society apart is far from settled. However regardless of the religio-political arguments raging across these comments. There is one inescapable fact. These men were, like me, supposed to be teachers. Their primary responsibility is for the welfare of the children in their care. Instead they embroiled them in a bloody and unwinnable suicide mission in which it seems many were killed and wounded. Frankly, I don’t care what their reasons were and whether their actions were sanctioned by some supeme being or not. Involving school children in this kind of carnage is just plain evil. Anybody who cannot see that is a lost soul, already suffering the torments of hell and eager to drag the world down with him. Furthermore, if there actually is a God who would gleefully accept this offering of mass slaughter in his holy place as if it were some idolatrous pagan sacrifice, then that would not be a God worthy of our devotion. That would be an evil God. In fact, that would be the Devil.

  20. amin polani (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 2:05 pm

    @ UBD “zulaiqah mard teeh ya aurat”

    aurat probably with BHURKAH.

  21. amin polani (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 2:09 pm

    or was it aziz mian with a BHURKAH

  22. amin polani (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 2:20 pm
  23. Nosheen (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 2:25 pm

    Mr or Ms. UBD .it’s not that i donot know what has been happening.I just raised this question since i feel not only on IMB but as a nation i guess we simply missed out the basic reason for which this blood spree was played.i guess cost and benefit analysis of the blood lost tells us what? Musharraf won a huge victory because the cause he was fighting for was toooooooo big to brag about.or was the real reason just a penny’s worth for which his army fought…

  24. sean (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 2:46 pm

    “@JWH Can you tell me what’s the basic ideology of Islam?”

    There is one true God, Allah, who gave the one true law, the Koran, to his one true prophet, Mohammed.

    That covers it, doesn’t it?

  25. Hamid (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 3:29 pm

    @Phil: Instead of accusing me, why don’t you and your likes answer the questions I raised?

  26. king_faisal (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 4:01 pm

    imagine the mindset of people who went out and murdered 3 innocent chinese people in response to the lal masjid siege. also imagine the mindset of people here who are defending the murderers of chinese citizens.

    what we are dealing with here has nothing to do with islam because the number of muslims who commit violence in the name of islam is statistically insignificant. the jehadis and supporters here belong to an outlier group of population whose goal is to control the lives of unwilling majority. political agenda is disguised in the cloak of islam to give legitimacy to the desire for power. violent twist is given to islam to justify violent actions undertaken by jehadis who have to rely on force because most muslims dont want to live under a totalitarian islamic state.

    those of us who cherish the freedoms we enjoy in pak have a duty to speak out. otherwise our fate wont be any different from that of the iranians.

  27. sean (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 4:22 pm

    You may have seen this report already. If not, you should, especially if you are in Peshawar.

    “The US embassy recommends that American citizens limit their movement in the Peshawar area for several days due to non-specific public announcements by terrorist elements in Bajaur tribal agency that they plan to unleash attacks on Pakistani governmental, police, and army institutions in retaliation for recent events at the Lal Masjid complex in Islamabad,” the embassy said.”

    “In the past, militants in the tribal areas have conducted mass-casualty attacks on settled areas, including Peshawar, soon after military action,” the embassy added in a message to US citizens in Pakistan posted on its Web site.”

    Incidentally did you know this blog has been linked by at least two American blogs, particularly here http://billroggio.com/archives/2007/07/the_assault_on_the_r.php. Bill Roggio is blogging as an independent reporter in Iraq (a very brave man) and has been reproducing your reports. You’ve also been linked by http://pajamasmedia.com/ a very popular and professionally produced American blog. Pop over for a visit and give them your 2 cents worth.

  28. JayJay (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 5:02 pm

    Sean: You are spot that a god can be anything but a god if he/she demands an orgy of blood and human sacrifice.

    Secondly, God, if there is one, will find it insulting if someone indulging in kidnapping, hostage taking, blackmailing, and killing people in his name. If God is Almighty and Omnipotent, he is capable of looking after him/herself and settling his/her scores with the transgressor. Why misuse his/her name for personal designs, especially if you are a representative of a religion by virtue of being a teacher and scholar of religion? Clerics should be setting standards, not to jettison them.

    IUNKNOWN: You said: “govt. didnt want to sign any deal with ARG (RHA). It was just a drama and they wanted to take a bit more time to reorganize and plan the attack”.

    What a dilemma. Should I believe you or Edhi (http://dawn.com.pk/2007/07/11/top10.htm) on this.

    Edhi is a highly respectable and credible figure, who is the most acclaimed humanist. Importantly, he was personally involved in the negotiation to resolve the hostage crisis and was acting as a guarantor for the safety of those who decide to surrender. What chances are there that he would lie on this matter in which he had no personal interest? Zero, zilch.

    Now let us see what makes your assertion credible. You knew the government was allegedly insincere because [pick the right answer]:

    1. You are a confidant of Musharraf;
    2. You can read people’s mind by watching them on TV;
    3. You had a dream about it;
    4. Your were in the negotiations team;

    I am afraid I have to go with Edhi on this.

  29. IUnknown (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 5:07 pm

    @JayJay: i wish i cud send u the attachment i have abt the drama played by govt. officials.

    Mufti Rafi Usmani sahab i think is more respected than edhi ( in my opinion ) and u can read the news paper today wat he has said abt the final talks.

  30. KAMI (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 7:15 pm

    @IUNKNOWN There is no comparison between Rafi Usmani and Edhi. Edhi has saved more lives than Rafi Usmani can dream off. One is all theory the other is all practical.

    However, I sort of agree that govt needed time to launch this operation, they needed to tire down the millitants and plan the operation. Negotiations are also an operational necesscity. When I heard Maulana making such ridiculous demands on live TV, I knew no govt can accept those. Because next time if there is a similar scenario the demands would be like;

    1/ Safe Passage to Hawaii.
    2/ No Prausecution.
    3/ No Arrests.
    3/ 6 weeks paid vacation.
    4/ 5 star accomodation.
    5/ Halal Chinese and Continental Cuisine.
    6/ Free Medical and Legal Advice.
    and ofcourse
    7/ Pick and drop for the kids.

  31. IUnknown (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 7:26 pm

    @KAMI, i wish u cud have said some sensible thing!!

  32. sean (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 7:32 pm

    Jayjay, I’ve been wanting to tell you something mate. You Rock!

  33. KAMI (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 7:40 pm

    @IUNKNOWN sometime you get sick & tired of talking sense, and you need to went off…especially when sensible people like you dont get it. I will be careful next time.

    JAYJAY & SCEAN you both rock!

  34. KAMI (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 7:54 pm

    @IUNKNOWN Here is some good I would like to say about Moalana Abdul Rasheed Sahib. He knew it that talks would not succeed. He knew that demands he was making will never be accepted. Its my opinion that after shame inflicted by his elder brother he was left with no option but to seek suicide or martydom, whichever way you see it. He wanted an honourable exit, which I blv he got in the end.

    I feel sorry for his brother though, he will have to live with this shame for the rest of his life. He instigated all this and left. His brother tried to salvage as much pride as he could and paid the ultimate price.

  35. sean (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 7:56 pm

    Ditto, Kami.

  36. sheepoo (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 8:37 pm

    In my last comment I had noted that we (the lay-people) need to acquire more knowledge to counter the effects of twisted ideologies vis-a-vis Islam.

    As a first step towards this, I would propose that everyone reads the following PDF file (is there a way this can be put directly on this blog?). This explains what happens inside a Madrassah in terms of the education imparted. It also lays down some histroy of the Madrassah system in South Asia.

    Even though the article is from year 2000, yet it is very relevant today. It is just 15 pages long and there is no ‘propganda’ items in it from either side of the spectrum.

    PDF file available here

    I hope that this first step will go a long way in making all of us understand as to what is the cause of all this mayhem all around us.

  37. Sajid (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 10:07 pm

    The real Culprit is the Army and its Dictator and its supporters.
    Now before you start Judging my comments please read below.
    Q: what made the maulvies, mullah that strong that they are able to create State within a State?
    Q: Are Maulvies more dangerous or the elements which are using them to create instability.
    Q: What group/ organization/party was responsible in facilitating the spread of Kalashnikov and Drugs in our society?
    Given below is the Answer from Wikipedia which summarizes all:
    “Pakistan’s longest ruling military dictator, General Zia-ul-Haq, as well as subsequent ISI officials had very close relationships with Maulana Abdullah, the former head of the mosque, who had a long history of fanning sectarianism. During the Soviet war in Afghanistan (1979-1989) the mosque played a major role in recruiting and training jihadis to fight with the Afghan mujahideen.[2]

    After Abdullah was assassinated in the 1990s, his sons Abdul Aaziz Ghazi and Abdul Rashid Ghazi took over the mosque, making it a centre for hardline Sunni Deobandi teaching and openly opposing the government.”


  38. michael (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 10:20 pm

    @Sheepoo: very informative, thank you

  39. KAMI (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 11:28 pm

    @Sheepo: very good reading. now I have got the cause and the effect, but what about the remedy.

    Is there a study out there that gives a strategy to roll back what has been done?

  40. iunknown (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 11:33 pm

    @kami : were u born in russia?

  41. KAMI (unregistered) on July 12th, 2007 @ 2:09 am

    @IUNKNOWN :) Borned, raised and educated in Pakistan. Needles to say that you can be a Pakistani and at the same time be a free thinker, you dont have to be a Russian or American to enjoy that privilege.

    Soach pey tou pehrey naheen laga saktey bhai. Apnee marzee se na jeeay tou kya jeeay.

    This is what separates humans from other living things. If we take what we are taught on the face value then its a waste of grey matter. So, I challenge everything and say this prayer;

    Oh God! if there is a God. Save my Soul, if I have a soul.

  42. IUnknown (unregistered) on July 12th, 2007 @ 11:54 am

    >>Oh God! if there is a God. Save my Soul, if I >>have a soul.

    sounds secular!

  43. omar r. quraishi (unregistered) on July 12th, 2007 @ 2:03 pm

    btw this blog has been mentioned in the news today by one of its columnists — and in not a very charitable light http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=64031

  44. backpacker (unregistered) on July 12th, 2007 @ 3:05 pm

    Omar: We respect everyone’s opinion here, and we are really glad Huma considered our blog worthy of mention in her column. Whatever the context be, it’s her opinion and we have a high regard for it. We are always looking forward to improve the quality of posts in our blog and look forward to maximum participation by the commentators.

    We tried to present a mix and match of views without taking any positions, and our purpose was to maintain impartiality in every respect. We have also been very open to public opinions as long as they adhere to code of ethics of this blog and people have been quite freely expressing their views.

    Lastly, I myself have tried to remain objective and to the point in my posts, A for [Pine] Apple added some profoundness and personal touch to hers, Phil did a great job efficiently reporting latest news , views and bits of information relayed by the commentators, FakeeRa has kept us updated with peripheral stuff going on about background and related information that lead to this event. Other members of the team also chipped in whenever they felt appropriate. Overall it was a team effort and we hope we have been resourceful for our visitors.

    We will always be looking forward to pieces of advice and opinions that can help us do our job in a better way.

    Islamabad Metroblogging Team

  45. A for [pine]apple (unregistered) on July 12th, 2007 @ 3:20 pm

    Regarding Lal Masjid Combat, how do you feel, please feel free to post your opinion.


  46. KAMI (unregistered) on July 13th, 2007 @ 1:06 am

    @IUNKNOWN its a prayer for a athiest or a sceptic. However being secular does not mean that you are not religous

  47. sophaeyyah (unregistered) on July 16th, 2007 @ 5:48 am

    I have read all the posts and it makes me so sad to see all this. I dont need to say anything about the reality of this operation to anyone. Anyone who still thnks that govt was right shd get more informed and shd know the views of Dr. Shahid Masood, Hamid Mir and Ansar Abbasi about it. I am not going to argue on that as anyone who has got a bit of common sense can see that it was all a cold blooded massacre. I m not going to argue on that.

    What is bugging me is the thought and realization that at last WAR ON TERROR has entered our borders. I am horrified at this. I couldnt hav imagined this ever. We were the bloody ALLIES. I was thinking the third victim to be either IRAN or SYRIA until today when there is a strong indication of military operation in Swat. There are suicide bombings everywhere and ppl on both sides are shaheeds. I am weeping for those innocent soldiers who have to pay for the follies of their GENERAL. And then I wonder about that suicide bomber. His son, brother or loved one must have died in Wana, Waziristan or Bajaur. All in the name of WAR ON TERROR. We helped in this na! We are the ALLIES and suddenly we are turning into a victim. We forgot that the fire which we are starting in our neighbour can cross our border.

    And here we are. One is a so-called moderate and yet he cant tolerate his fellow whose views are different from his. Isnt it also a form of extremism. Then there are those who were being praised, were da heroes just a decade back, the great mujahideens and all of a sudden they are being labelled TERRORISTS so we dnt wnt them here anymore. At no cost. Where should they go??? TELL ME??? We were the ones who made them. They are our brothers and if they have their views then it doesnt make them less Pakistanis. They have as much rights as us even if our views dnt match. We just cant go and ELIMINATE them ( a word being used by DG ISPR).

    Now lets think whats happening to us. Who is wrong??? Think please. Agar Pakistan hoga tau hi hum secular hongay ya phir extremist……….jab Pakistan khud hi khatre mai par jai tau…………..???? I am seeing Pakistan and its no different than IRAQ. There is US supported govt. There is so-called WAR ON TERROR ( anyone who is on the wrong side of general is a terrorist and that includes our great CJ as well) , then there is insurgency in the tribal belt and Swat and there are suicide bombings on govt buildings and security personnel. Lal Masjid was the theatre that US needed and our general once again provided that. Military operation in Swat…….. Gorrilla war starting in the mountainous region with shaheeds on both sides……more suicide attacks……… more destruction ………. arent we headed towards a road to destruction???

    Lal Masjid was peaceful till 6 months back. And our nice PM tells us that this operation was planned 6 months back. So what prompted these ppl who were right about their stand on the shahadat of MASJID E HAMZA to take law into their hands. Was he the same person being called Munnafik on CAPITAL TALK??? And was he the same person who provided them with those 14 weapons???

    My dear friends!!! its not a clash between two idealogies if u think so. Dnt fall a prey to this. The first one was being propagated by a General to prolong his regime though in the end his friends discarded him when he was not wanted anymore. And the second one is the one being adopted by our current General all in the name of good of people of Pakistan. Dnt we have brains??? Cant we see??? Our society is a peaceful one be it Mullahs ( dnt argue everyone knws who is behind the establishment of Sipahe sahaba, lashkare jhangvi, taliban and alikes) or otherwise. But its those mighty generals who bring chaos. Look what Saddam did to his country and it makes me sad because we are heading the same way. Why do they forget the end of Saddam??? why dnt they learn a lesson once for all??? His era has ended but what it gave IRAQ??? and I am sad because my country is heading there all in the name of WAR ON TERROR. Once again we are fighting a PROXY WAR. But last time it was against one giant for another giant at another land. This time its for the same giant against us on OUR OWN LAND. Wake up u ppl before its too late. We have already thrown one of our own ppl’s home ( JAMIA HAFSA) into fire but who knws this fire may reach our doorsteps next time. I am a sad person today as I knw in Swat troops are on a high alert. Again they have gone for no operation but ONE UNKNOWN BULLET FROM AN UNKNOWN PLACE will be fired and then………….. just like in LAL MASJID. I am always scared by this one bullet.

    One general has already used us IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, please dnt let this one destroy us all IN THE NAME OF WAR ON TERROR. They do it just to prolong their regimes but leaving their impact for generations to come. Lets not hate our own ppl. If someone is Maulvi or not Maulvi, he is a Pakistani. Being either doesnt lessen his rights. Lal Masjid operation was wrong, an attempt by our general to please his ALLIES. And it wont end up this thing but will ignite all such happenings. When Wana, Waziristan, Bajaur bombings happened; we kept silent. It was not happening to our loved ones. So what if there was someone killed. If they dnt follow enlightened moderation, should they deserve to be killed??? And then those helpless ppl thought of registering their anger and protest in a way…………… by blowing themselves up. Now we ask WHY??? Because we dnt feel safe in our markets our community any more, so we ask WHY??? Did anyone went on to listen to their version of the story. But why should we bother??? They are terrorists. Who tells us so??? US. Who are they to decide??? Like idiots we are again becoming pawns in da game. Previously they said DO JIHAD tau we said LABAIK and now they are dictating us WHO IS WHO and WHAT IS WHAT about our own brothers. Lets say they have done something wrong against US. Even if true, so why do we care??? If they can go on and honour our culprits with SIR titles, so why should we care. Just to prove that we are moderates. What good do we get out of it??? They will help us by supporting our dictators. By not helping democracy prevail. HOW COOL!!!

    In LAL MASJID TRGEDY the same happenned. Ok! they took law in their hands but does that mean everyone needed to be wiped out the way it was done??? Where is our ‘Main bhi Pakistan hoon Tu bhi Pakistan hai’ spirit??? We shd tell the govt that to kill anyone extra judiciously, no matter how wrong they are; is wrong. Thats all. If we dnt help these ppl get justice, if we dnt ask the govt WHY, one day we might be blown up in some busy corner of a street by someone who dint even get the chance to bury his loved one. Then we wont be able to ask WHY???

    Please dont cultivate extremism so that we dnt have to reap it. Coz today I am thinking of Saddam and look what he gave his country??? massacres and genocides, mass graves, suicide bombings, sectarian voilence, war against terror, friendly invaders, hostile insurgents……………..and I weep for Pakistan…………………………………………again one bullet……………………………one more operation……………………………….more sufferings………………….more suicide bombings……………………………more destruction……………………………They are right…………………………………..POWER CORRUPTS and ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY. One man desperately clinging to his crown has led us on this way…………………………………………..Lets stay UNITED cos maulvis or no maulvis; we are Pakistanis and we will not let them divide us so that they can rule forever. We dnt want to fight one more PROXY WAR just to help a general prolong his reign !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No more PAWNS IN THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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