Lal Masjid Opens For Friday Prayers

redmosque_ap.jpgAfter Operation Silence on 10th July 2007, this is the first time the Lal Masjid has been opened for Juma prayers.

Photo Credit : AP

Latest!-27th July 08:00 PM
According to the recent updates 13 people are so far dead in the blast. 43 injured. Mostly among dead are the police constables.

Latest!-27th July 05:15 PM

A huge bomb blast near Lal Masjid has just killed several people. Riots broke out outside Lal masjid with people throwing stones on security personal. Severe tear gas shelling in the area. Makings of another showdown in progress. More updates comming in.


Latest!-27th July 02:30 PM
People finally offered prayers on the road behind Maulana Altaf, a student of Jamia Fareedia. According to unconfirmed estimate, approximately 5000 people were present onsite

Latest!-27th July 01:30 PM

Maulana Ashfaq Madni to lead the juma prayers.Students of Maulana Gazi who was killed in action on 10th July are protesting inside the Mosque and not allowing Ashfaq to lead the prayers. They demad Ghazi’s brother Abdul Aziz to be brought to the mosque to lead prayers. Security forces have been moved out of the area and there are only civilians there at the scene. The number of people at the scene is in thousands. However people are protesting inside the mosque playing Jihadi songs, chanting slogans against the government. In an exchange of punches and kicks some people had to flee the scene, when the crowd fell out in a row. Heavy exchange of bows, shoes and chappals. Jumma prayer already delayed.

Tags: Lal Masjid , Islamabad, Islamabad Seige, Jameya Hafsa, Jameya Fareedia, Lal Masjid Seige

46 Comments so far

  1. Babar (unregistered) on July 27th, 2007 @ 3:24 pm

    They are painting the mosque red again, and writing slogans in favour of Ghazi brothers on the walls. They also threw out Liaqat Baloch and other JI leaders.

  2. Babar (unregistered) on July 27th, 2007 @ 3:37 pm

    To top it off, girl students have also sneaked in , so that we are all set for another hostage crisis.

  3. JayJay (unregistered) on July 27th, 2007 @ 4:16 pm

    Actually, all the madrassa “students” (read terrorists) — male and female — should have beeb lined up in front of firing squads. This stupid leniency by the government has already started coming back to haunt us.

  4. Babar (unregistered) on July 27th, 2007 @ 4:39 pm

    Almost all the students released by govt vowed to wage jihad. Isnt there a clause in PPC which allows for holding up and conviction of people who threaten to kill or disrupt the state? But SC is so keen to let them go, as if they are thr wronged party in this case.

  5. Babar (unregistered) on July 27th, 2007 @ 5:09 pm

    I have started seeing the pakistani media since Lal masjid affair for the first time. Its weired the way the do reporting, just like running commentary of a hockey match on radio (mind you not on tv but on radio)

  6. Babar (unregistered) on July 27th, 2007 @ 5:11 pm

    I have started seeing the pakistani media since Lal masjid affair for the first time. Its weired the way the do reporting, just like running commentary of a hockey match on radio (mind you not on tv but on radio) for example, why would it interest me that if the police vehicle on the left is doing the shelling or the vehicle on the right, but the compere must ask this question.

  7. sameer (unregistered) on July 27th, 2007 @ 5:17 pm

    @Jay Jay
    all the madrassa “students” (read terrorists) — male and female — should have beeb lined up in front of firing squads….(sab kah sab?)

  8. Phil (unregistered) on July 27th, 2007 @ 5:18 pm

    Bohat alla jee bohat alla! Who the hell told them there was need to have Friday prayers so urgent!? It’s sad the these students are decimating the sanctity of a Masjid like that! Why the hell are they politicizing their stance? An imam is an imam, say your prayers first!

  9. Babar (unregistered) on July 27th, 2007 @ 6:49 pm

    Suicide attack on police at Abpara killing many

  10. sheepoo (unregistered) on July 27th, 2007 @ 6:56 pm

    May Allah have mercy on Pakistan!

  11. IUnknown (unregistered) on July 27th, 2007 @ 7:14 pm

    ameen ameen

  12. Kashif (unregistered) on July 27th, 2007 @ 7:22 pm

    This is happening when mush is out on his date with BB.

  13. Salman A. (unregistered) on July 27th, 2007 @ 9:24 pm

    it was an idiotic decision to open the mosque at the first place.. wasn’t there any other mosque in the town that was already open for people to pray? even your ministers are idiot. for example, this Ejaz guy who happens to be the minister for religios affairs is a complete moron and i am sure there must be many more like him in the govt.

  14. mo0hamed ali (unregistered) on July 27th, 2007 @ 9:34 pm

    Can Musharraf contain militants? no he cannot, so ask the americans for help. pakistan is turning into a new iraq.

  15. michael (unregistered) on July 27th, 2007 @ 10:34 pm

    Sooooo frustrating… for the love of God, stop hating, bombing, and killing. Freaking Islamic insaniacs.

  16. KAMI (unregistered) on July 27th, 2007 @ 10:57 pm

    Nobody should do anything, First the media, the political parties and we as a nation should decide that, what do we want?
    If the govt finds itself in a catch 22 situation of taking action and then facing the wrath of the media, the likes of Shahid Masood, Hameed gul and several other conspiracy theorists, then there will be no action. All the political parties instead of indulging in propaganda should agree that it’s a major problem and these zealots cannot be allowed to roam free. They have even kicked out their Jamaatee brothers, this should open their eyes as well.

    I am just shocked, the amount of poison was injected into their veins by the Gazi Brothers, read the following interview by a Hafsa student;
    Inspite of all that crap, No one in our political leadership has a viable strategy to deal with this except for rhetoric and blaming America for everything. The media wants to immortalize their souls instead of exposing their screwed up ideology. At least the so called liberal parties should come out strong and say to the government, “Take action we will support you”. I tell you now, that if we as a nation don’t stand upto this madness then it will be too late. If we are the silent majority then we will have to demonstrate that fact. However, This cannot be achieved simply by blogging………

  17. TREETOP (unregistered) on July 27th, 2007 @ 11:14 pm

    The ground is fertile for a civil war in pakistan,although its scarry but may be we need one.Pakistan cannot be reformed through demo or dialouge.Let the theology, idealogy or any other crap slug it out and let the winner take all.

  18. Babar (unregistered) on July 28th, 2007 @ 12:56 am

    “Suecide bombers are fighting for islam” esteemed Imran khan says.

  19. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on July 28th, 2007 @ 1:36 am

    @kashif:who knows, Mush might get deported like Shah of Iran. That guy was also doing same thing in the name of enlightenment.

  20. d0ct0r (unregistered) on July 28th, 2007 @ 1:39 am

    people a charged and this emotional reaction was quite natural after the massacre of hundreds of innocent students .. even today they discovered burnt body from the rubble of Jamia Hafza .. and found other body parts… dictator can’t hide is crimes so easily he’ll have to pay for it sooner or later..

  21. d0ct0r (unregistered) on July 28th, 2007 @ 1:45 am

    just whitewashing the masjid and changing its color to offwhite won’t wash of the sins committed by dictator at this place

  22. Phil (unregistered) on July 28th, 2007 @ 2:04 am

    A good time to leave your leaders in a lynch… By calling him a dictator, a yazeed etc. Haven’t we always done that?

  23. KAMI (unregistered) on July 28th, 2007 @ 3:04 am

    @DOCTOR this is not the first time people have fought or struggled for a cause. What we see now is totally un-natural.there have always been tyrants and occupying powers and exploiters and people have struggled against them but none like this. You mentioned Shah of Iran, yes people struggled against him but they did not killed innocents by the dozens or use suicide bombings. Other examples, Blacks in South Africa, Russians against the Communist party, Students in China our own popular movement against Zulfiquar Ali Bhutto and thousands of other examples.

    One thing that I don’t understand there are no extreme situation in our country, infact the government is weak, media is strong and there is a new life in the judiciary. So where is the need for such a bloody struggle and against who? The poor police constable? Or the innocent bystanders? It seems that some how they have come to the conclusion that the greatest hurdle to their cause is the innocent bystander or the passerby, so they are killing them by the dozens.

    If they say there is Zulm (persecution) and they are fighting against it then, they cannot succeedt by becoming Zaalim themselves. The onus is now on religious parties if they don’t contain this, declare in no unclear terms that suicide bombing or any bombing or killing of civilians is haraam, then they will be the next target of these fanatics, as indicated by the exodus of Liaquat Baloch from Lal Masjid and the abuse he received. Let me remind you this has happened with all the recent so called jihaadi movements from Kashmir to Chechenia, they have killed many more of their own than anybody else. This is exactly like all headless jihad’s that are going on, with no leadership (short life span), no direction, just mad dog fighting.

    Let me remind you, there was was even much greater sin committed in this place. A sin that will plague the victims for generation. It was a sin of poisoning innocent young minds to such an extent that they are incapable of making rational choices in life. It was sin of breach of trust, when they were taken away from there own and thrown into the fire and it was a sin when no other but the alma matir took the pen from their hands and gave them the belt.

    I cannot write any more……….

  24. pm (unregistered) on July 28th, 2007 @ 7:04 am

    you must see the other side of picture, we have two extremists here and both are killing. In this battle on recieving end there are innocent women, children, bystanders and passers-by. Ironically both of the extremists know each other’s tactics very well, hence the collateral damage is so high. Most unfortunate situation is that 160 million people have no role to play in this apart from loosing their lives. Most of these 160 million sincerely think mullahs are fighting against enemy of islam (read america and musharraf) so they can not condemn them openly. Rest of the 160 million believe pakistani army is holy and they can not condemn them openly either. So at one side we have a paid army who can kill even their own children as long as they are paid, and on the other hand we have people who can kill even themselves for their cause. Its not a good omen, Pakistan future is like Iraq unless hopefully something good happens. Btw unlike Iraq Pakistan have never allowed a dictator to sit for 24 years;:)

  25. TREETOP (unregistered) on July 28th, 2007 @ 8:32 am

    With all due appologies to every one,iam going to ask some crude questions.
    Is not the resposibility of the citizens to take matters in there hands,just crying foul is not going to work.
    For centuries muslims had been waiting for a messaih or some leader with herculean power to take them out of thier misery.
    If you look at the nations which are prosperous and strong,they did it with out a messaih.
    Islam is a pregerization of christianity and judiasm.
    If quraan is abook of God,then god needs some schooling.

  26. JayJay (unregistered) on July 28th, 2007 @ 9:09 am

    “…a young man came in front of his restaurant and shouted Allah-ho-Akbar before blowing himself up.” Daily Times

    If there is a God, He will be trembling with anger over the abuse of His name to killing His creature. So much violence in the name of Allah. What a weird ideology, which demands sacrifices of innocent civilians at the altar of the Allah. If Allah is Omni-potent as believed by the failful, he surely is capable of settling His scores without needing a human-bomb (or bum?) to kill human in His name. What happened to the message of humanity which every religion is expected to preach. Surely, the Jihadis have been successful in portraying a totally different, inhumane, image of Islam. Keep yourself blowing up in the name of a “religion of peace and tolerance”. Who would believe the mantra of peace anymore?

  27. KAMI (unregistered) on July 28th, 2007 @ 9:21 am

    Yes @PM I know, the maximum life span of a dictator in Pakistan is 10 years and even then he needs some sort of seudo democratic setup to survive. Pakistan never had absolute dictator ship like Iraq or Chile and thats to the credit of people of Pakistan.

    Where I disagree is the majority of the people of Pakistan believe in Mullahs or the army. I can say that for certainty for Sindh Baluchistan and majority of Punjab and even NWFP. As for Tribal areas, they never called themselves Pakistani, they were always independent and proud of being Afghans and I have no problems with that. but If state of Pakistan is not allowed to establish its writ in their area, similarly they shouldnt be allowed to enforce their writ on the main land.

    Today, there have been interesting developments on the political front – meeting b/w Bibi and Mush. Whether it would be good or bad only time will tell. However, both the religous party and the millitary seem to be in disarray and the old nexus is no more. Judiciary has won a crucial victory. I dont know how much you have been following Pakistan media, but in the past five years I have seen such bold and frank discussions on every imaginable topic including millitaries role in pakistan politics that can be compared to any international enterprise.

    These are all positive indicators lets see democratic forces can take advantage or not. Extremism can only be defeated by the will of the people. Not long ago Karachi was the hot bed of Al-Qaeda and its co-horts. There were bombings at regular intervals on consulates and hotels, assasination of prominent shiite professionals was the norm and the rival religous groups were fighting it out. That situation is no more and the people have prevailed. this shows that this phenomenon can be brought under control. Islamabad can do the same.

    This sounds optimistic….any way lets see.

  28. MB (unregistered) on July 28th, 2007 @ 10:13 am

    Islam has been made a laughing stock , courtesy the Ignorants + government.

    Just a question out of interest :-
    What a neutral mind would be making out of all this religious drama in capital ?

    That Islam is all about making people hostage, making people’s mind hostage to a particular ideology & indeed we seem so innocent (to WEST) when we (try to ) explain that ISLAM never grew using force.

    There is no reason for them to believe that Islam spread by peace and love (or mere preachings). And yet we claim that THE WEST misunderstood ISLAM. Honestly, isn’t it that the MUSLIMs misunderstood ISLAM more than the WEST did ?

  29. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on July 28th, 2007 @ 1:27 pm

    yes you are right. West didn’t misunderstood Islam neither madrassah people. This is the reason West with all powers applying all tactics to remove Islam[though they can’t and it’s in their BOOKS as well]. West clearly knows that entire Muslim population has got busy in fantasies and filth in the name of modernity, this is why they are after madrassahs and its pupils because west is scared that unless they don’t getrid of them, they can’t fulfill their agenda. This is why they came up with a fictitious war and called it WAR ON TERROR. The 9/11 drama was a lame attempt by west to defame Islam, the things went entire reverse order and Islam was spread more in past 7 years. It kept scaring them and then they tried to bring something which is called RAND report to promote liberals against madrassah people. What liberals re doing today is based on what they have been ordered. It might sound like a story but read the report, it exposes well the real face of liberals and who is behind them:

  30. pm (unregistered) on July 28th, 2007 @ 1:40 pm

    “Where I disagree is the majority of the people of Pakistan believe in Mullahs or the army. I can say that for certainty for Sindh Baluchistan and majority of Punjab and even NWFP. As for Tribal areas, they never called themselves Pakistani, they were always independent and proud of being Afghans and I have no problems with that. but If state of Pakistan is not allowed to establish its writ in their area, similarly they shouldnt be allowed to enforce their writ on the main land.”

    Majority of Pakistanis are plain muslims they believe in saying prayers 5 time a day (though they may not say a single themselves), they believe in Quran the holy book (though they may not recite it themselves), they believe in Jihad the holy war (though they may not wage it themselves). So anybody who does all these things majority of Pakistanis will not condemn him as a matter of fact they will take pride in him. Remember I am talking about millions of plain simple laymen (whom many poeple scornfully call Jahil Awam). These people are not illetrate or stupid they are just like billions of other people who believe in a simple faith and want to follow that faith steadfastly. They are not going to condemn Mullahs as they believe at the moment Mullah is following their faith. The will not believe in Mullahs politics or become Mullah themselves but they are not going to hate him.

  31. IUnknown (unregistered) on July 28th, 2007 @ 2:09 pm

    @Micheal: did i hear some thing????? u started again?????? where is the answer of my last post abt POPES???????

    @Adnan: very very well said. 100% to the point

  32. pm (unregistered) on July 28th, 2007 @ 2:45 pm

    @PM There is a proven way how to marginalize mullah and get millions of plain simple faithful muslims on your side Jinnah proved it 65 years ago even Bhutto proved it in the near past. So I am not worried about that.
    Real worry for Pakistan is how to get rid of “army on hire”. It is not that easy specially in current circumstance usually an army like this is marginalized by a defeat like 1971 where Bangalis had to pay a very dear price , or like in Iraq where the whole Iraq is burning. I am wishful when I say we get rid of dictators in less than 24 years, first time when we were able to marginalize the army was in 1971, and we had to pay very dear price but later from 1977 we are again practically under the glitches of the fascist army and we will have to pay a dear price again nothing short of a civil war.

  33. KAMI (unregistered) on July 28th, 2007 @ 6:39 pm

    @PM agreed, majority of Pakistani poor plain Muslims who also love music and like to dance. They are not gonna stop doing that because the moulvi’s say so. They also joke about the Moulvi in the folk lore and they almost never vote for him, elections in NWFP after 9/11 are an exception, on the other side Islamists have lost major ground in Sindh.

    As for the Bhutto’s. The first one blew it away when he had no challenge from the millitary, instead he choosed to use it and paid the ultimate price. In fact, the first one implemented 50% of his socialist agenda by Nationalizing Industry and Commerce and letting the Jagirdar go scot free with disastrous consequences for the Nation. Army was not responsible for that fiasco. The second Bhutto is now cutting a deal with the millitary for the sake of democracy and marginalizing extremism. Lets see how things unfold.

    The fact is, that the country is looking for leadership, ground is fertile, can anybody step up?

    We already know about Benazir, She is dealing, lets see. It is now obvious that as per agreement brokered by Saudia, Nawaz Sharif cannot come back to Pakistan while Mush is in power, so he has no option but to campaign for his removal before anything else. Qazi is trying to hold on to his constituency in Swat and curse as usual, Fazlul Rehman “the wise one”, I bet he already has a survival plan, Altaf Hussain is his usual self, with a firm grip on Karachi and the telephone, every body clearly knows where he stands. By the way guys, seriously, where is Imran Khan? Any body knows his where abouts?

  34. TREETOP (unregistered) on July 28th, 2007 @ 9:03 pm

    @KAMI do you have anyone in sight.

  35. original-faisal (unregistered) on July 28th, 2007 @ 9:52 pm

    “instead he choosed to use it”

    Hope you won’t mind me pointing out that the correct word should have been “chose”.

  36. pm (unregistered) on July 28th, 2007 @ 10:19 pm

    Kami, your last response is a classic example of military propaganda, I don’t blame you though most of Pakistani are easily affected by this propaganda. They (military) has two pronged strategy one instill fear of army in ‘bloody’ civilians and second malign any other group (politicians and any other civil society organ) that can challenge them.
    Democracy is an evolutionary process , military dictators are dinasours, there can never be a civilized society as long as dinasours rule the earth.
    “Looking for leadership” is a military propaganda, remember leadership comes through democratic evolution it does not come out of nothing. All the civilized nation have an history of 200+ years of democratic evolution and this evolution begins after dinasours are extinct. Pakistan has not yet even started that process :).
    Again as I said it is very difficult to convince most Pakistani liberals what is wrong in their society.

  37. KAMI (unregistered) on July 29th, 2007 @ 3:25 am

    @PM sorry you are wrong, I see no arguments in your last post just claims and statements. I am not defending the millitary, but am not prepared to absolve others also. We have quite a few dinosaurs, but they will entually get extinct. At present no one can claim to have absolute power and thats a good sign. Who says that every nation has to go through a 200 year process to establish democracy, thats a misnomer, several countries in South America with worse record than ours are can be quoted as examples.

    TREETOP dont worry, some body will emerge in fact in present day world you dont need that espeacial person. You just need to ensure that you dont skip any election, create an environment where business flourishes and merit is valued, your judiciary and financial institutions are free and media is keeping a close watch. Countries like South Korea, Japan Taiwan, Hongkong dont have any glamorous leadership, they just have institutions that are allowed to do their job, and thats it.

    So simple…..I wish

  38. Pak_Stallion (unregistered) on July 29th, 2007 @ 3:43 am

    Whats wrong with you people. Stop being so pessimist about our nation. There is no civil war or Iraq type situation. This is a mob who are disguised as Islamic people. They must be eliminated by force. All religious gatherings must be monitored.

    Those who are using terms as “civil war” etc are in fact either stupid or enemies or our nation. Pakistan is not middle east. We are a mature nation but we do need great and educated leaders.

    And NEVER talk against our soldiers, display Pakistan flags in support of our troops. We respect our Army and soldiers and I hope they dont continue to be stuck in a “Political” crises as they are simply soldiers.

    Also the so called Lal Musjid must be shut down and their should be no buildings at this location of any type. The mob does not deserve it especially after killing innocent Pakistanis. Keep in mind these are disturb young kids who need direction in life, they have no better options.

  39. TREETOP (unregistered) on July 29th, 2007 @ 7:06 am

    I cry and i cry when i see half baked ideas discussed with fervor and backed by distorted facts.all these countries that you mentioned were ruled by half way decent dictators in thier early stages of developent.After they achieved social and economic stability, then they allowed democracy to floroush.and remember literacy rates that they achieved 30 or more years ago we are not there yet.EDUCATION AND EDUCATION alone can solve our problems.

  40. KAMI (unregistered) on July 29th, 2007 @ 9:42 am

    Ahh Education, it seems that in our country there has been a deliberate attempt to keep the population illeterate. Our waderas always had this notion that if their subjects got educated then who will salute them and do their chores. So education has never been the priority of any govt, millitary or otherwise.

    As for dictators promoting education, that is purely chance, they can promote anything or any body. What I am trying to say since we were never blessed by Communism and Capitalism was stopped in its tracks in the 70’s and then Zia had no clues as to how to run the country. So what to do now when there is a leadership vaccum? The best way forward is to avoid chaos and promote industry, commerce and trade. Privatize large govt enterprises and drastically reduce the size of the govt and the millitary. Since, business and commerce thrives on merit and in todays world needs educated human resource. Hence the demand thus created can set the dynamics in motion for giving due priority to education. To do this we need leaders who are good economists and people managers, thats the trend in south east Asia and around the world.

    Sorry again, these are just random thoughts, I am neither an economist nor an educationist, I can be totally wrong and borderring on ridiculous but something needs to change …..just no chaos please……and no compromise on elections

  41. Claude (unregistered) on July 29th, 2007 @ 3:21 pm


    Sure, the economic world has an important role to play as an incentive for education. But it is vital to keep its influence under some control, because the actors – and even / above all the theoreticians – of economy are not always right in their evaluation of future requirements, and also because they tend to be satisfied with having just a sufficient number of sufficiently trained human resources. And most often, they are ignorant of / willfully ignoring the reality of education. Giving too much weight to their opinion has had some rather nefarious effects on Swiss education, for instance.

    There are many eminent Pakistani researchers and university professors. Some of them, like Pervez Hoodbhoy, have chosen to work in Pakistan out of commitment to education, when they could have enjoyed easier working conditions elsewhere. I am not saying that making Hoodbhoy minister of education would be a good solution, because I don’t know if he has the necessary skills / disposition for administrative manoeuvring: top-level scientists rarely do. But having people like him in an commission in charge of drafting education policies might be a good idea, perhaps.



  42. KAMI (unregistered) on July 29th, 2007 @ 6:41 pm

    @Claude that kind of work has already been pioneered by Prof. Dr. Atta-ur-Rahman, another prominent Pakistani Scientist (just google his name) I guess if you know Hoodhboy then you must be knowing him also. This amazing guy out of no where took the charge of the most neglected and unwnated ministry in Pakistan i.e. Science & Technology / Higher Education and in a very short span made a huge difference. He single handedly has resurrected our cash starved Universities, there are research programs all over the place, PH. D scholarship is now being encouraged and University research is being properly financed. But all this is at the macro level.

    Surprisingly at the micro level also, Pakistan has produced pioneers in the fields like Micro Credit, Rural Development and Housing / Education for the poor . People like Late. Akhter Hameed Khan;
    and Tasneem Ahmed Siddiqui are a shining example. Their work is being presented as the model for sustainable development for the poor around the world.

    So there is no dearth of people in Pakistan who can do the job at the professional level, but the irony is certain powerful special interest groups (since the creation of Pakistan) dont want to use their services and unless these groups are not marginalized, the status quo will continue.

    I guess the question now is How to marginalize the vested interest groups? There is the path of urban unrest, chaos and revolution. Which in present day world seems outdated. The other more sain and sustainable option is the growth of Industry and Commerce which thrives on the middle classes. We have a very strong middle class in Sindh, which though is still not under any proper leadership, but has effectively reduced the feudal influence in some part of the province. However, the key is in Punjab, it is the political hub and the majority stake holder in the country. Previously its population was mainly poor ruled by a very wealthy elite. The middle class was very weak and mostly serving in the millitary and hence could be easily controlled from the top. Now things have changed, I see now in cities like Lahore, Gujranwala, Sialkot and Faisalabad a strong middle class emerging propelled by mushroom growth in industry and thats where I am pinning my hopes. Already, this middle class in Punjab has shown incrdible maturity in leading the struggle for the restoration of the CJ and not being sucked in by the fundamentalist rhetoric before and after Lal Masjid operation.

    Again these are my views I can be proven wrong, but what I always always advocate to my fellow bloggers is to look at broader picture.

  43. TREETOP (unregistered) on July 30th, 2007 @ 4:02 am

    CLAUDE you wrote this piece just for the hack of it or you have some seceret agenda.

  44. pm (unregistered) on July 31st, 2007 @ 4:19 am

    KAMI, please note that I do agree with you on some points, but regretably every time I write something I had to disagree with you on something, forgive me for that :).
    This time it is about Dr. Atta Ur Rahman, unfortunately I know him too well as I worked with him and some of his closes friends worthy to mention Dr. Junaid Zaidi who is currently Rector CIIT, and let me tell you one of the most unfortunate thing about Pakistan is that the so-called “intellectuals” and “philanthropists” are probably the worst of its people. Let me give you an example would you think that an intellectual will be worried about the model of the his official car and will go as far as snatching it from another colleague. Or would he advise to his friends to use a short cut by using money or influence. I am not personally attacking any of these guys but I am quoting just these as examples.
    As far as there achievements are concerned let me tell you before the arrival of PM these guys were in real doldrums because of their incompetence and one of them even had a writ petition against him in high court.
    Another worthy name to mention is this group is Dr. Nasim Ashraf, many people know him now very well after he got into cricket business. :)
    Please note that Hoodhbhoy is not part of this group.
    So in a nutshell there may be many people in Pakistan who can do their job, but it will be very hard for them to actually do anything in Pakistan.

  45. KAMI (unregistered) on July 31st, 2007 @ 10:00 am

    @PM dont worry I agree, I have also seen very notable Scholars and Deans fighting over some very petty issues, like the carpeting of their offices. I dont know much about Dr. Atta-ur-Rehman at a personal level and dont know how much Dr. Salimuzzamans shoes he was able to fill in as a scientist. But to his credit he was an effective minister of S & T and did managed to revive scholarship at the Universities and secure them the funding for research projects, where there was none.

    As for Hoodbhoy (reminds me of Carl Sagan), he is indeed a brave lone fighter. One can feel his passion for knowledge and an urge to spread it. He opposed the nuclear programme when no one even dared to speak against it except perhaps if I remember right Dr. Usmani. Principled and bright people like him are a misfit in our society and that is perhaps the greatest tragedy of this nation.

    By the way PM wouldnt it be boring if we agreed on everything?


  46. Claude (unregistered) on July 31st, 2007 @ 5:17 pm

    For Treetop

    I wrote neither for the heck of it or out of a secret agenda, but out of my experience of the dangerous effects that giving too much influence to the economic/business world on education has had in my country (Switzerland). Because not even the actors can know what the requirements of economy/business will be the following year. So they give advice based on their present requirements, and as education planning takes time, this advice – when it is too specifically targeted – is obsolete by the time it is implemented.

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